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The Forum > Article Comments > The golden age > Comments

The golden age : Comments

By Jay Lehr, published 2/12/2011

The current economic/political hole the world’s leaders have dug likely has reached its absolute bottom from which only upward movement can be achieved, in other words “it can’t get any worse.”

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Jay Lehr,

The only truth is that too many people do not know on which planet they are and they don’t ask why they are where they are.
Posted by skeptic, Friday, 2 December 2011 8:26:37 AM
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Oh boy, I have read some rubbish in my time but this clearly takes the cake.

Blind optimism at each stroke of the keyboard.

Tell me Jay, did you take physics at school, perhaps you should explore the laws of thermodynamics before you spruik such riddiculous drivel.

Europe is about to implode financially, the US will follow suit, China is blowing bubbles and with its European market dropping off a cliff Australia will soon find its wealth from the so-call mining boom wither and shrink dramatically. We are so far from the bottom it is ridiculous.

I admire your optimism, as ill founded as it is. Good luck, you are going to need it.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Friday, 2 December 2011 9:48:41 AM
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Geoff of Perth - the writer is simply acknowledging reality. The blind are those who insist that we are all going to hell in a handbasket when clearly all the stats are pointing in the opposite direction.. I'd be interested if you can find a long term population trend pointing in the direction you think things are heading..

What really impresses me is that this guy knew M King Hubbard. I have no objection to Hubbard himself. His research had some validity at the time, and its not his fault his work was misued by peak oil people who refuse to acknowledge reality.. so I'm impressed..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Friday, 2 December 2011 10:01:22 AM
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Thanks Curmudgeon,

In response, given the state of our planet in terms of degradation and loss of top-soil, deforestation, biodiversity loss, pelagic fish decimation, unhealthy monoculture industrial food production practices and a wealth of increasing resource issues on a finite planet I would guess that we will see population top out around 8 or 9 billion in the next 50 years and then decline rapidly toward around 2 to 3 billion, but of course I am only prognosticating on this given no-one can know the future definitively.

How's that for an estimation?
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Friday, 2 December 2011 10:14:01 AM
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Jay......I just love your optimism, but unfortunately Geoff is spot on. See, the problem with being optimistic or pretending everything is fine, it gives everyone a false Sence of reality. I myself, am a shock jock or whistleblower-realist, which many on here find my words cutting a little too close to what should not be told, by the one,s that for some reason, think it will cause a panic.

Like one of our long term loud-mouth ding-dongs, who thinks if your not joining the majorities way of thinkings, you apparently have some sort of mental illness. See some of these self-righteous nits/members that think their brand of twisted realities/delusions is the only path one should join without question, however themselves are in fact suffering from a condition called an acute Superiority complex.

Other authors have argued that it is a mistake to believe that both the superiority and inferiority complex can be found together as different expressions of the same pathology and that both complexes can exist within the same individual since an individual with a superiority complex truly believes they are superior to others. An inferiority complex may manifest with the behaviors that are intended to show others that one is superior; such as expensive material possessions, or an obsession with vanity and appearances.

continued
Posted by Cactus..2, Friday, 2 December 2011 11:11:58 AM
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Jay....the thing is, if one was to believe that everythings going to be fine, then nothing will be addressed and as the old saying goes " sweeping it under the carpet, wont make it go away.

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Friday, 2 December 2011 11:26:34 AM
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Geoff of Perth (and cactus..2 should listen in)

I said personal indicators, as they are far harder to fudge or confuse.. of your list exactly one holds water.. the fish.. yes, over fishing is indeed a bad problem. If left uncheck most fisheries will be depleted in 50 years or so. But it can be fixed if we dump the ideologies and concentrate on actual solutions. Australia has adopted a system of tough controls and tradable quotas for fisheries which seem to work.. so you agree those sort of controls should go worlwide? If not what are your reform suggestions?
Posted by Curmudgeon, Friday, 2 December 2011 12:41:18 PM
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Of course the Heartland Institute was very much involved in the mis-information campaign to prove that smoking cigarettes is good for you. So too with toxic sludge, as in the title of the book Toxic Sludge is Good For You.

Which is to say that any and every thing that this chap promotes should be treated with a huge dose of skepticism, or a bathtub full of salt.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Friday, 2 December 2011 12:54:31 PM
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Daffy - Heartland never tried to prove that smoking was good for you.. the issue was over the effects of secondary smoking.. and was that Heartland or Prof Singer?.. admittedly, a lot of people equate actual smoking with secondary smoking but if you're going to sling abuse around, its best to be accurate.. then people may actually pay attention to what you say..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Friday, 2 December 2011 3:43:44 PM
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Jay,you ain't seen nothin' yet.This financial crisis was set up by a few elites to establish their New World Order.Israel looks like attacking Iran and your fuel bill will treble.

The US $ will collapse since the Federal Res has created micky mouse money (ie the click of a mouse) in their computers to the tune of $31 trillion that we know of.This means in real terms since 2008 the value of the US $ has decreased by 75% but this money is being hoarded in the worthless derivative market until it collapses.The only thing propping up the US $ is China and the fact we all trade in US $.

The collapse of the US $ will be the greatest singular event in history.Everyone on this planet will be affected.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 2 December 2011 5:44:11 PM
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Curmudgeon.

I agree that the Australian fisheries with quoter's and buy-backs of net lic's etc is a step in the right direction, but if the Australia Government keeps on filling this country with more people, then in my opinion, all the good will and hard work will be for nothing.

(Like any population explosion, once the balance is undone, it can 1000's of years to reclaim back to its original starting point)

The main aim for the meaning of sustainability is to realize now what is being seen around the world, and the out-look is not in our favour ( human-beings). By the first world peoples point of view, some still think that its too late, and in many scientific circles, population control is the absolute number one problem facing this planet today.


In Asian cultures, they have very little respect for anything that nature provides and just to mention whales or dolphins, well....as we go down the human IQ chain, Japan, China, and many more, just live for today and to hell with tomorrow generations. Blue fin tuna are dangerously low to the point of exstintion, however this does not deter them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz4QTUGWSu4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En0hBxR8YhE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrJfsH7wsFc

Curmudgeon.

Unless the world works as one, human-beings will eat this planet alive with-in 50 to 100 years.

I wish I had better news...

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Friday, 2 December 2011 8:41:58 PM
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I'll just keep listing all I can find that humans are destroying on a massive scale.

Warning. Some pictures may make you feel sick to your stomach.

This is what happens when your told everything is fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yov6aCqt8w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDwSrRgtyA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxacxShp3LY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBO_OwRar4&feature=related

And pollution and your earth....remember what we put into the sea, ends up in YOU!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8JKrlFQUvA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC0AjFxopjI&feature=related

See the problem is, this is whats happening with our population at 7 billion......Now use your minds to see what 8 billion looks like, then 9 billion, then by the time 10 billion people hit the mark, don't even worry about it!..lol.....because by the time human-beings hits 8 billion people, all the systems will have been destroyed.

Why!...because people have to eat something, and some say the more the merry A.....smile.....No everything will be fine, wont it?

I said to someone just the other day, 'what will do with so many people?, and he answered, the governments of the world will look after us all..........I had a very worried look on my face......and he said, whats wrong?..oh nothing....I just didn't have the heart to tell him.

7 billion people, and we have these major problems now.........* billion!.....I hope Iam not around to see it, sad face:(

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Saturday, 3 December 2011 6:53:31 PM
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Well, Well, Well.....not one word out of you, why am I not surprised.
Yes, bit of a eye opener, isn't it. See, over-breeding ourselves is what is causing the planet to fail. So, what is the solution? Well, I have a plan. I want you to ask yourself, is my child going to have a great life?.....well, the answer is NO. If one thinks of that nice white picket fence and 2.4 children all smiling and doing fine, your part of the problem, and you don't even know it.

Point 1....Subject....popuation control....mod..6.5......See, what I have devised, is a program we all can follow.

Step 1.......A new government law which all will follow ( and if not, have a look at the world around you )...7 billion....its not going to work, and you know it.

Law/commonsense..to the people.....if you can support a child until 21 with your own money, then that will be free for you to decide. If you can not pay for your child, the law will state, that you can seek abortion/adoption with out penalty. If you wish not to take these options, your family or group situation will take up the payments of the child's up brings until 21 years of age.

The then government will after five years, will hold one year open for all people rich or poor, with full Government funding and support for 12 months until the cycle of five years without, starts again. See right now, the baby-bonus is giving poor people more poor people to plague the systems which we all can see today and right now, and you know it.

So, if well off people are to breed, and the cycle of poverty that stains every country right around the planet is not, well Charles Darwin with his righteous Evolutionaries, is dead on target with every other living spieces on this planet.

This thought is just a program that all other living things lives by.

People!...these are worring times, and you know why......Its the only way I see out of this mess.

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Sunday, 4 December 2011 2:51:27 PM
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How do you get the chinese to downsize, they are on rations now. Besides that they are running out of the main ingredient.
The Africans breed at will, with all the aid that has gone into them places, not one pill among em. They just starve to death , same outcome i suppose.
If you gonna make statements like that you have to back it up with some models that have a chance of working. Or else bring out the bomb.
Posted by 579, Sunday, 4 December 2011 3:19:54 PM
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We have the alarmists warning about pop growth to 7 billion.With the new farming techniques we can probably feed double that.The issue is not CO2 but a few elites wanting their Global Governance which Bob Brown and the Greens endorse.This is Communism by stealth in the name of saving the planet.

So we have lunatic neo cons in the USA/Europe/Israel pushing for war with Iran/China/Russia mostly to escape Occupy Movements whom they have stolen from.Their way of saving the planet is to destroy it.War is peace and debt slavery is freedom.This is all Orwellian double speak!
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 4 December 2011 4:12:27 PM
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Thanks 579....
Yes! and good points.

I guess i was talking about Australia and its contributions to the whole. Iam not at my wits end yet to bring a peaceful end to this problem, but with the hope of all that could some-how work together on this matter and do whats logical as a WORLD WIDE UNDERSTANDING.

So what do we do with the most powerful hominids thats ever been seen on this planet?

My personal thoughts is Peace.. its on all fronts....however Jane Goodall and most understand more than quite well whats in the ape and so do you:)

Again.....Its going to be a very interesting century indeed.

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Sunday, 4 December 2011 4:37:35 PM
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Arjay has his back up like a cat on a hot-plate:).....Now now Arjay:)...your imagination is running wild again mate:)...We mean you no harm:)...lol

Oh dear:)

CACTUS:)
Posted by Cactus..2, Sunday, 4 December 2011 5:33:49 PM
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It's difficult to find words for this drivelling, snivelling and ignorant panegyric over the here and now we've created, the same here and now that teeters on the brink of economic and ecological collapse, whose masters preside over a morbidly sedentary, obese and mentally deficient/sick population, and celebrates the scourge that is humanity on a planetary scale.
Why is these neoliberal scum-bags get so much airtime on OLO--are they really that representative per capita?
I don't think so; their just the modern conservative zealots.
Even the "Co2 is plant food" twaddle is trotted out. Shouldn't there be a minimum standard of erudition to get published here? Or ignoble prizes awarded to tripe like this?
Posted by Squeers, Sunday, 4 December 2011 6:40:21 PM
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Squeers:) They be alot of words:)....Iam but a humble servant:)

"and celebrates the scourge that is humanity on a planetary scale"

Air Time you say thats abused, my my:)....if what I have put here you find not to your reading, may I suggest a fictional subject that wont get you upset, with the winds of reality:)

Human populations are the main cause to all what I put here. The only one's that find this evidence frustrating are the money-makers that promote human growth knowing that it spells the end of man kind:)

Squeers:)....How was that?...:)

Just joking my friend.......we all know the human economies and the industrial engines must and cant stop.....maybe the Time Machine is more to your liking by H. G. Wells, published in 1895 for the first time and later adapted into at least two feature films of the same name, as well as two television versions, and a large number of comic book adaptations. It indirectly inspired many more works of fiction in many media. This 32,000 word story is generally credited with the popularisation of the concept of time travel using a vehicle that allows an operator to travel purposefully and selectively. The term "time machine", coined by Wells, is now universally used to refer to such a vehicle. This work is an early example of the Dying Earth subgenre.

I think some of your own words might be mixed up in all what the youth can see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmBM1v2XU80&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJLcOQwL69U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd4c_b1PLj4&feature=related

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Sunday, 4 December 2011 8:05:06 PM
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"....except perhaps greenhouse gases. But they are most assuredly not pollutants and make our planet livable."

Well, in that case, it seems that our planet is becoming more livable by the moment....highest level in 800,000 years

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-05/global-emissions-on-the-rise/3712166

"....man's genius for improving the technology to locate, develop and refine these resources."

Care to take a trip to the Alberta Tar Sands? (you might be able to get a job scraping bird carcasses off the surface of toxic sludge ponds)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/03/canadian-oil-sands/essick-photography
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 5 December 2011 8:51:24 AM
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Yes, thanks for the link Poirot--lots more yummy "plant food".

More important, from my point of view is the subtitle: "New research has found global carbon emissions surged by a record amount in 2010 after falling during the international financial crisis",
which bears out the thesis I've been peddling for years, that carbom emissions are the inexorable product of economic growth, which equals material growth and carbon byproduct.
The "market-based solution" idea is idiotic, and thus so is a carbon tax. There is only one way to reduce emissions globally and that's to terminate consumerism and the growth engine, shrink economies and cut real consumption--real austerity measures. This won't happen unless it's forced, though, by economic collapse, which will be much more costly in terms of lives than proactive action would.
Not a problem for the author of this article, of course, because the more plant food the better!
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 5 December 2011 9:16:04 AM
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"it can't get any worse."

It can and it will.
Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 5 December 2011 10:20:54 AM
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Squeers,

Thanks for pointing out the fallacy of this article in your post on Sunday (though I think some posters may have misinterpreted that part your rightful criticism may have been aimed at them - which of course was not the case). All the same, this article has been a valuable contribution - as it has identified the very questionnable bent and itentions not only of the author but also of the organisation he represents. We should be on our guard when encountering articles or media coverage from a similar origin.

Poirot,

Thanks for the most enlightening links. The horrendous vista of the tar sands mining in particular presents a salutary message on the depths of mankind's potential worship of mammon and loss of respect for self and just about everything else. We are indeed in a death spiral, and only hell on earth awaits - unless?

It is quizzical how we can at once gasp in awe at the wonders displayed on National Geographic and such of new and amazing species filmed for the first time in the ocean depths, or of unique species in jungle or forest depths, and yet to be studied, or of the minutiae of marvels revealed by the microscopic lens, and yet, and yet, shrug off all concern as we see those self same environments razed, pillaged mercilessly, or rendered toxic. We are sick, just so very sick, and need to raise a scream of anguish to the heavens, that all may hear, and hopefully heed. But there is no hewn cry, no appeal to the gods, just deathly silence (save for those immediately labelled as fruitcakes, troublemakers, tree-huggers, or the unholy unwashed).

It almost makes one want to give up and withdraw from the race, such are the depths of man's depravity.
Posted by Saltpetre, Monday, 5 December 2011 1:54:30 PM
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Thanks Saltpetre for the comment. My post on Sunday was a bit rushed and hyperbolic now that I look at it again (sorry about that to the author, but the topic arouses passions, and so it should!), but as you say I wasn't directing it at posters; indeed I only read the article--all rhetoric and no science. It's a shame we don't get more articles from those qualified on the other side. Graham once confessed to having sought out a piece by Matt Ridley; perhaps he could go digging among the 95% of climate scientists who do believe in AGW?
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 5 December 2011 6:35:25 PM
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Saltpetre,

Well said!

The tar sands abomination in Alberta accurately sums up just how dumb wise man is. However, this project is set to continue expanding. Transcanada is pushing for the U.S. to give the okay for a pipeline - the Keystone XL - to take the dirty tar sands oil into America. The decision to go with this (or not) has been postponed as it is such an environmentally sensitive area.

A little more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline

http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 5 December 2011 10:17:22 PM
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*However, this project is set to continue expanding*

Well there you go, Poirot. The US is full of mums and dads,
just like you and Squeers, who keep popping out children,
who want to drive cars etc.

The result, tar sands.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 5 December 2011 11:07:22 PM
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I can't help but feel that this Golden Age is one of iron pyrites, 'Fools Gold', as the world paints itself further and further into a corner from which it will be unable to withdraw. Were it not for our inherent vulnerability and our security reliance on the U.S. I would venture to suggest that Aus withdraw from the global family and the global economy, and take our chances on our own. But, alas and alack.

It may end up being a good thing that Oz does not have oil, making us less of a target; though we do have gas - but then much of this is bespoke already in any case. We had better come up with a plan very soon to do without oil, and little gas, or else start designing a carbon fibre buggy for the family that has it all.

Poirot,

Thanks for those extra links. The Transcanada self-praising propaganda piece and the attempted Republican push to rush Obama to approve this new pipeline makes very clear the voraciousness of North America and the power of the capitalist lobby in that arena. There is a certain mania and paranoia in the way the world's most powerful nations are rushing to steel themselves against any deceleration of the mammoth consumerist machine, and against any threat to their continued superiority. Dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, natural (or unnatural) selection in full stride. Humanity? By whose definition? The term rushes to premature obselescence.

What catastrophe must befall to curb the tide? A benign and benevolent world order fades into the smog of a belching mammoth of gloom, of lust, and of the dust of destruction and decay.

If there is a God, we need some guidance now, and perhaps some smiting hip and thigh.
Posted by Saltpetre, Monday, 5 December 2011 11:39:54 PM
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I do enjoy watching those that like to tip-toe around the truth they just cant bring themselves to tell, for it is not wise to face down the beast thats killing us all. Yes how far will mankind go, to show how stupid his quest for money, wealth and power is, but then the day will come, where he too will look into his own child's eyes and say, Oh My God! What have I done.

Lets hope this awaken comes soon.

National policy world-wide.......Let the death rate out weigh the birth rate.......We must not let ourselves kill the only planet we have got........you people cant be that thick?

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 12:16:45 AM
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Yabby:
<Well there you go, Poirot. The US is full of mums and dads,
just like you and Squeers, who keep popping out children,
who want to drive cars etc>

Certainly too many people is part of the problem, Yabby, though as I think you've observed or endorsed elsewhere, Western populations are more or less stable or in decline.
The real problem, en masse, is consumerism, whereby it's promoted as a downright virtue to be conspicuous, for the sake of it, with all one's self-worth vested in material status, a semblance or caricature of aristocracy. Consumerism is the modern form of exploitation, the cultivation of prodigality, but the real evil driving the farm is the same as it ever was, the profit motive. The same rationale that once presided oblivious over the unspeakable horrors endured by exploited industrial workers, now presides over the pathologically glutinous consumer, whose desire (for he knows not what) is perennially renewed and cultivated ad nauseam. The same evil that presides indifferent over the tar sands and all the other abominations committed against the biosphere, against any moral justification for our existence, and ultimately against that very existence.
The consumer is the pathetic victim in the process, more to be pitied than despised. The real evil is the faceless dynamic that drives it all. Do you really suppose the market passively "responds" to that desire for "a car etc."? that the nitwit driving it is ultimately driving the whole process? The process is systemic and "intelligent", or technocratic, and the dynamic is excess at home, in wealthy countries, and expansion abroad. But this is not passive growth, it's aggressive, exploratory, manipulative--downright evil!--and finally entrepreneurial. People like me who've racked-up too many kids are the modern (anti)saviour's who help to drive the economy. What would happen to economic growth if we stopped breeding? Satiety already afflicts us to a morbid degree--we're stuffed and nauseated, but it's not enough. The economy is ailing and needs more consumption and more consumers--and more raw materials.
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 7:12:16 AM
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I forgot to add--which all spells more carbon emissions.
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 9:10:46 AM
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"What would happen to economic growth if we stopped breeding"? lol...Well I don't know:)....maybe zero unemployment and smooth running system with all numbers that fits with the countries infrastructure growth...maybe...or what about using the same model as Ants and bee,s police their communities......and Iam sure there,s more points that others can add without too much brain stress:)

"Certainly too many people is part of the problem"...well talk about hit the ground running, its the only problem that faces humanity.........I guess maths wasn't one of your strong points Mr Squeers.

"Yabby:
<Well there you go, Poirot. The US is full of mums and dads,
just like you and Squeers, who keep popping out children,
who want to drive cars etc>

Talk about a contradiction in terms:)....However Mr Squeers/Yabby....the rest is quite correct but unfortunately your making the mistake of not pointing out that its the by-product your talking about thats after the fact of too many.

CACTUS
Posted by Cactus..2, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 10:05:12 AM
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Cactus,

Congrats on the attitude.

On the contrary, it's the advancement of human technology since the Industrial Revolution that has just as many repercussions for the planet as a whole - our biosphere - that need just as much attention as overpopulation.

Here are some pics from the latest inheritor of "industrial magic without restraint" (something humans seem extremely proficient at):
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 10:43:54 AM
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< its the by-product your talking about thats after the fact of too many>
You're missing the point, Cactus, that the capitalist economy must grow or die, and that it grows thanks to growing consumption--effected both by excess and population growth. How else can it grow? The only way Australia can sustain its current living standards (temporarily) without growing its population is by flogging stuff offshore, that is by exporting population growth and consumption along with raw materials.
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 11:31:15 AM
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"that the capitalist economy must grow or die,...No Squeers baby, your missing the point:)....do you see that least bit, The "DIE bit....friend, everything on this planet is finite, and thats whats going to be the end result and us a bigger mess to clean up. In stead of 7 billion people problem to clear up, there will be 8 or 9 billion people clean up......look! your not going to get out of it Scott free my friends:)......either way one looks at our growth, this planet is in deep trouble and some of your grand-children are going to read my and many others warnings, and they will not be happy at the ones that could of simply started a human reduction plan......and after the word sustainable actually fits our species description along with the rest of the worlds living creatures, we the new people that haven't even be born yet, ( speaking from with-in the womb as someone not born yet ) they will love you and call you heroes and be celebrated for all time.

Then again, Women are the one,s that keeps popping them out........and some are so thick, their child at this stage of time, will be condemned to a life of complete sh!T.......and you females know it!

Continued....
Posted by Cactus..2, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 2:18:22 PM
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..........Try taking true leadership, and control the numbers since you lot are the only one,s that can give life.

If your man says" lets have a kid!.....then you can tell him, that the kids life is going to be a very poor one, and if he cant get his brains around that one, tell him.....he can go have one, and good luck with it:).....not to mention the sex after a child is born, is never going to be the same again!

You try squeezing out a watermelon! and then feed it for 25 years plus...cause none of them are going to leave home, and you dam well know that one too.......(where are they going to go?).....thats the problem!

Yes, so!.....ummmmmm:)....that felt pretty good saying all that:)

I feel much better now Poirot, and you being a woman should know exactly who's making all these babies, its your kind....now! bloody-well stop it:)

CACTUS.
Posted by Cactus..2, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 2:18:50 PM
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*but the real evil driving the farm is the same as it ever was, the profit motive*

Not really Squeers, no more the you wanting to get paid for your
labour. Without profit there can be no investment, without investment
there can be no innovation and change.

Yet much of that change is extremely positive. To cut it short, if
people never made profits, you would not be sitting here on the
internet.

With population its quite simple really. Your six kids means an
extra 6 cars on the road. If they take after you, your grandkids
will have 36 cars on the road. Wether they buy a few more trinkets
here or there, hardly matters in the big scheme of things.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 7:19:12 PM
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