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The Forum > Article Comments > The 'maths' behind the Shalit prisoner swap > Comments

The 'maths' behind the Shalit prisoner swap : Comments

By Manny Waks and Geoffrey Winn, published 31/10/2011

No matter how tortuous the negotiation that preceded Shalit's release, it is the moral calculation, once reached by the Netanyahu Government, that most readily reconciles the gross discrepancy in the numbers.

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Rhys, I appreciate your balanced reply. Whilst I agree with the general tenor of your argument, I have reservations about "the moral ground"
1.The USA is one of our allies. I cannot see that their actions in Iraq can avoid the blanket that you placed over "our allies".
2.I believe that in general you are correct about the UK in Northern Ireland, although in the contemporary history of that conflict, there were extreme actions perpetrated by the Brits. In the case of Israel, I do wonder if the "moral" standards are very screwed up under the threat of their survival being at stake, year after year.The tragedy of the conflict I guess is no different to other conflicts: The inability of each side to see each other as equal human beings, and to accept that each casualty is a catastrophe, regardless of whether the victim is Israeli or Palestinian.
Posted by Bempec, Monday, 31 October 2011 2:20:22 PM
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Bempec,
I speak out just as bitterly against my government for my part in murdering millions of Vietnamese and and have spoken out against my government, its puppets and allies murdering millions of people in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon, Dominica, Panama, Libya, etc., etc., etc.
I still speak out whenever US supplied or paid for bullets and bombs are murdering people as in Palestine.
Tuesday night I'll be standing vigil for my comrade Scott Olsen, wounded last week by a bullet paid for my tax dollars.
Posted by 124c4u, Monday, 31 October 2011 2:25:42 PM
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There is no 'maths' behind the Shalit prisoner swap nor is there any morality. This is a straight forward political decision and it should be recalled that Shalit is no ordinary prisoner but a prisoner of war.

As already commented one might compare the kill ratio as in the Gaza War of 2008 the figures were 1,400 predominately civilians murdered in Gaza versus 8 predominately soldiers in Israel. How moral is that?

It is well known that Israel periodically round up all Palestinian boys and men from the ages of 14 to 60, no charges laid against them, no right to legal representation more often than not tortured and left in jails to rot. These Palestinian boy and men are picked up for the sole purpose of swapping. If Shalit had been a Palestinian picked up by Israeli forces there would be no negotiations today as the Palestinian Shalit would be either dead or so traumatized by the torture he had to endure at the hands of the Israelis he would be like a vegetable.

But let us look at the decision to swap Shalit something that Netanyahu could have done years ago and examine the question why now? The swap has boosted Hamas' fortunes amongst the Palestinian civilians and consequently a political blow to Abbas and Fatah of the PLO. This was Netanyahu's punishment of Abbas for introducing a resolution at the UN General Assembly for the UN to recognize the Republic of Palestine within the borders of June 4 1967.

So you see there was absolutely nothing about regaining the high moral ground and everything to do with Netanyahu's desire to punish perhaps the most malleable bargaining partner that Israel could ever dream of negotiating peace with.
Posted by Ulis, Monday, 31 October 2011 3:56:18 PM
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Ullis, it is interesting that we know the statistics down to the finest details of Palestinians incarcerated in Israel, but either we do not know the equivalent details concerning oppression in Syria, Iran, Chechnya, Tibet, Sri Lanka or are disinterested.
Posted by Bempec, Monday, 31 October 2011 4:07:27 PM
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Halduell,

"Who was Ahlam Tamimi anyway? We know what she did. Has anyone asked why?"

Are you implying that random killing of diners in a restaurant is justifiable?

----

Now Tamimi and others of her ilk are free to do their thing again, yet I justify Israel's doing what it HAD to do - there was no other choice.

Why?

Because Gilad Shalit was a conscript. He was kidnapped by the state of Israel to begin with, only to be later kidnapped again by a second kidnapper. The onus is on a kidnapper to bring back home the souls they've taken, at any cost whatsoever, even of their own destruction.

Had Shalit been a professional soldier, I would have viewed things differently and would not agree with the price of Tamimi's release. I hope Israel will learn its lesson and abolish conscription, the sooner the better, before the next conscript is kidnapped by Hamas.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 31 October 2011 5:16:29 PM
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'It is worth remembering that had she lived, Malki Roth would now be the same age as Gilad Shalit, a very young woman with dreams and a future still intact.'

Morality? Really when every Israeli Jewish child like Gilad and Malki, if still alive, would include in their dreams and future the wonderfully character forming activity of learning to kill and repress Palestinians.

Israel is one of the few countries in the world that requires it's children to undertake compulsory Military Training.

Defence is a wonderful excuse for aggression, when the purpose of that defence is aimed at securing settlements on stolen occupied lands.

Manny and Geoffery come here preaching morality ... a twisted morality... that supports militarising children to protect stolen land. Oh so moral.
Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 31 October 2011 8:19:40 PM
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