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The Forum > Article Comments > Breivik shows there is no solution to 9/11 > Comments

Breivik shows there is no solution to 9/11 : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 7/9/2011

Ten years on 9/11 is an existential point that has grown no larger but can't be cured.

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Mark Cristensen.

Thank you.

No more can be said for your call to acceptance and understanding of the human condition.

No man that does not accept it in its entirety can be said to be reconciled with our ambient.
Posted by skeptic, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 9:04:24 AM
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'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'.

This common claim is nonsense. A person may consider that an act of terrorism is justified, but even if she were right, that would not imply that it is not a terrorist act.

It is also nonsense because of its adoption of moral skepticism.
Posted by ozbib, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 10:07:38 AM
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Look at the truth of 911 here http://ae911truth.org/ and here http://patriotsquestion911.com/ Then tell us who the real terrorists are.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 10:29:20 AM
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Simple situation

We stop Islamic terrorists by staying out of Islamic countries, avoiding wars in the middle east, not showing support or giving assistance to aggressive countries (USA) and by barring extreme Islamism domestically.

To stop people like Breviek we need a more democratic culture (more referendums) that breaks down politics to the individual basis- not the shameful "left/right" popularity contest we do now.
When a conservative loses in a referendum in Switzerland- they acknowledge that the majority of the people simply didn't want it, for their own reasons, but complains that everyone else was wrong.
When a conservative loses the election in the US, Norway, Australia- etc; the sky falls down. Their powerful interest lobby failed to get the mandate, and the lobby they stood against is now undisputed master of the country and free to enact whatever 'terrible' policies they like; and the result in two of the three countries is a mass shooting at a support rally/speech/camp of the opposite side.
Of course, this system also has its fair share of riots (UK, Greece, Thailand, France)

As soon as we stop treating terrorism like a random fact of life like an earthquake or a thunderstorm- and realize that they are things our society actually creates from easily remedied practices, the better.
Posted by King Hazza, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 11:11:13 AM
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As stated, Mark is writing a book on the "nature of reality"
Therefore, the following points may one day, perhaps not in my lifetime though, may be revealed as reality.

9/11 was very sad for those casualties, their families, the workers after the event who have died and those workers who will continue to die as a result, like the thousands of US military, ex Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, 'the so-called war against terror' who are treated so abjectly with second-rate after-war care and who will fight for every dollar of medical care, while the Republican Congress reduces taxes for the wealthy.
9/11 was not properly investigated, as with Kennedy's assassinations and for anyone interested in the truth, were both seemingly “arranged” by people with a lot to gain.
9/11 was a platform to move the Neocons, still alive and well in their evil little groups, walking the streets, still advising even today, (the Bush henchman, Wolfowitz was here recently and given star treatment by the naive ABC ) all who assisted a criminal president, George Bush, to lie to his country, to the world, to start a war based on those lies, to kill 4,000 American soldiers, well over a million Iraqis through bombing, medical embargos, etc., and yet in the 'land of the brave' he is able to retire, a fabulously wealthy man with no court appearance, no reckoning as to these crimes and in 2011, no mention of it either.

How’s that for apathy, twenty-first century style.

There's the real crime. Dislike just one man, Saddam, so the US killed a million innocent people. The US, now a weak country is unjust, inhumane and with a criminal mentality. Anything goes. Just wave the tired old flag.

One should remember that all these crimes by the US were administered, carried out by millions of others of like mind, public servants, politicians, military personnel, diplomats, all with no public objections, willingly doing their jobs, their duties. How entrenched is the philosophy of death and how cheap is life, even American lives, for the cause of military power.
Posted by rexw, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 11:57:20 AM
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The Pentagon papers showed America in a true light. Wikileaks showed America as a hypocritical, unstable country, but by tomorrow (or soon) all such things will be forgotten as yet another disaster is engineered to benefit the military / industrial empire, the America’s largest employer and without whom their economy would collapse in a month.

The US needs wars. They need an occasional 9/11 and if they do not occur as a natural consequence of a local problem, they will be engineered. The US and their evil ally, Zionist Israel, constitute the real threat to world peace. Nothing else.

Anyone with a contrary view read ‘The Concise History of the Middle East’, Goldschmidt and Davidson; ‘Kill Khalid’ by Australian Paul McGeogh and the ultimate detail of the real crimes against humanity, ‘Nemesis’ by Chalmers Johnson.
To top it off, really analyse the “war on terror” in Afghanistan of which compliant little Australia is involved, playing our part, towing the US line, a confidence trick which in three years time will revert to the old Afghanistan as it was and always will be, a backward Islamic country, peopled by all-powerful warlords, disparate tribes, living simply (not at all westernised) under the archaic laws of Islam and ever will it be so. They may even go back to growing their own food for a change, instead of US military sponsored and protected drug crops for the world’s addicts. Afghanistan is, after all, the biggest illegal drug producer in the world, by far. What a coincidence that there is a war going on there.

In the meantime, of course, the US militarists, the large US “gorillas”, here in Australia as well, yes, even Halliburton, living off the largesse of our Defence contracts, filling the pockets of their ultimate beneficiaries and shareholders, the US politicians whose electorates enjoy daily the benefits of employment in the military industries, critical to the US economy. A vicious circle.

A formula for continued disaster and creative scriptwriting like the recent bin Laden theatre. Even Obama the dupe had a bit part.

War is good............for economies. Keep them coming.
Posted by rexw, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 12:42:24 PM
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We are approaching the 10th anniversary of September 11, 2001, which changed the world. Analysts observed although bin Laden was finally killed, he won major successes in his war against the U.S. "He asserted that the only way to drive the U.S. from the Muslim world was by drawing Americans into a series of small, expensive wars that would bankrupt them". Washington was bent on fulfilling bin Laden’s wishes was evident at once. There is every likelihood the Jihadi movement, much of it highly critical of Bin Laden, could have been undermined after 9/11. The “crime against humanity,” rightly called, could have been approached as a crime, with an international operation to apprehend the suspects. That was recognized, but no such idea was considered. In 2011, Bin Laden was killed in his compound by a raiding mission of SEALs, entering Pakistan by helicopter. After many stories were provided by the government and withdrawn, official reports made it clear the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law, beginning with the invasion itself. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the victim, as presumably could have been done by commandos facing little opposition except from his wife, according to the White House. The decision to kill bin Laden outright was the clearest illustration to date of a little-noticed aspect of the Obama administration's counterterror policy. Obama’s claim that “justice was done” is an “absurdity” that should have been obvious to a former professor of constitutional law. Washington never made public the evidence of its claim that Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to trial. Perhaps the rejection of the legal option of a trial reflects a difference between the moral culture of 1945 (Nuremberg Trials) and today. We are left with two choices: either Bush and associates are guilty of the “supreme international crime” including all the evils that followed, or we declare that the Nuremberg proceedings were a farce and the allies were guilty of judicial murder. Think about that!
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 1:09:15 PM
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Ofcourse the bombing of the twin towers on 9/11 was an act of terrorism.

Ofcourse the American actions in Iraq as revealed by their own Pentagon papers and the Wikileaks show that it was the US who started the acts of terror. Terro begat terror. That's plain logic. What's wrong with that? Both are acts of terrorism.

The US of A cannot claim or expect immunity for its guilty actions around the world and not expect retalliation. Whoever rides on the tiger's back cannot get off.

It began what it cannot finish to its entire satisfaction. It must be able to distinguish between justice from revenge. It should understand the Islamic ethical code.An eye for an eye is OT stuff the Jews know full well. The Israeli actions reflect the American. Anyone surprised? Israel is the 52nd state of the USA even if it happens to be located in the Middle East.

Hit someone and then cry foul if you are hit in return as an act of self-defence, then call that terrorism.

I don't think so.

You want to live in peace based on justice? Then let others enjoy those blessings as well.

socratease
Posted by socratease, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 1:28:26 PM
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Despite all the in-depth analysis and inspiring tales of heroism in the face of atrocity, the question that never seems to be seriously addressed is "why?"

It's OK to continually rain such horrors down on innocents around the world but when it follows you home it's somehow different.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 8:18:42 PM
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rexw"war is good for economies." Only for a while.Those who bebefit from wars ie the elites in the banking,military industrial complex do not put their profits back into the system to develop economies.They want to weaken our economies so they can buy up assets for cents on the $.

The Gillard Govt wants to destroy our economy with a carbon tax so more of our country is bought for a song.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 9:24:46 PM
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Listen up you guys.
Brevik was just one man with a gun killing to draw his leaders to the betrayal of his country and his cultural values which should have been what they should have been doing. The Taliban are a pack of animals who once roamed the land gunning down all who they held to have betrayed the cultural and religious values they live by.and will do so again,once they seize power again...and that wont be long. In fact they are presently doing so again.

What's the difference? There isn't any.Prove me wrong, someone, if you can, or dare to.

socratease
Posted by socratease, Thursday, 8 September 2011 12:22:19 AM
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Jeoff of Perth,

None of us is innocent and all trials are victor’s trials.

Animals seem to have appeared on earth and disappeared from it because of the planet’s quirky nature.

Man, not only cannot escape his demise but is accelerating his pace towards it.

Man is an animal that, unlike all others, tries to adapt nature to his will and thus, foolishly, challenges the superior forces of the planet in which he lives.

One thousand years geologically is a very short time.

Can we imagine what will be of our Manhattan like cities in a thousand years from now?
Posted by skeptic, Thursday, 8 September 2011 1:22:31 AM
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Will the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan stop terrorism. No - many argue it will do no more to inflame it. Already allied forces are propping up dubious governments particularly in Afghanistan.

The best counter to terrorism is not to act as a terrorist. There have always been terrorist waves whether it be the IRA the Red Army all with a cause. The actions of past colonialist and imperialist goals were a form of terrorism.

Nobody is completely innocent in all this except the victims who trust their governments (all over the world) to look after their interests in the best way and who so often fail them.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 9 September 2011 10:26:20 PM
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Pelican.Believe it or not but Blievek was concerneed that their government wasn't looking after their interests in the long run... not at all. It's horrible what he did,I admit.
Hence his wake-up call. How else can you remove a deep malignant cancerous growth? You have to be cruel to be kind.
Look past the immediate grief from the blood-letting and try and look at the misery or tragedy ahead in time to come when worse blood letting is inevitable as current historical trends show.You've seen what one armed man with an automatic weapon can do. Now imagine what thousands aoded by some suicide bombers can do in future.
Those who don't learn from the history of the present are bound to repeat the errors of today.

socratease
Posted by socratease, Saturday, 10 September 2011 1:02:58 AM
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http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12578#217575

pelican,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnk-YdRMHs&feature=related rape has increased 3 times in Sweden over the last 20 years, it is an equally tragic picture in Norway & the rest of Europe.

Breivik was, perhaps inappropriately trying to protect you from the loony left who want even more women raped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlkEYoKC-kA&feature=related when will the closet communists stop promoting terrorism.

The problem is evil ideologies like left wing politics, islam & zionism.

There is absolutely NO hope for peace anywhere in the world until every one of them is dead or in jail for life.
Posted by Formersnag, Saturday, 10 September 2011 1:34:23 PM
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FS
"There is absolutely NO hope for peace anywhere in the world until every one of them is dead or in jail for life."

Every one of whom? With respect, this is exactly the sort of rhetoric used by terrorists no matter what their ideology
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 11 September 2011 5:06:33 PM
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http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12578#217674

pelican, every one of whom? i said it before but will repeat it for you, every islamist, zionist & communist without any exceptions is a radical extreme terrorist & must be exterminated.

Muhamad married one of his wives at age 6, had sex with her for the first time at age 9, this sort of filth is still going on today as we blog. his own words in the koran promote the practice of "taquiya", namely telling "dhimmis" like you any & all lies neccesary to fool you into thinking their intentions are peaceful.

There is NO peaceful islam, never has been & never will be.

http://media.causes.com/1050799?p_id=175393267&s=request the real islam, what plans they have for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHeBJNFS1g when you have finished watching the other one check this out + all other 4 parts of the series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U4c7Ldua2o&feature=related follow all 8 parts of this one, pelican, see what their solution to feMANazism is?

example #1, australian local terrorist from Afghanistan, here for 19 years, 14 children, never worked, all of it on welfare. a hatefilled manifesto equal to Breivik's. Filled with hatred of YOU, me, all white Australians whether christian, agnostic, or atheist?

example #2, recent boat arrival, genuine italian designer label shoes not pirate copies, a card linked to an account with $20,000 aud in it, do you seriously think this guy is fleeing oppression, or the son of a poppy growing Afhan war lord?

WAKE UP.

Almost all of your colleagues claim that many decent christian churches are evil cults but islam is good, wellcome?

in many European nations now rape is an epidemic & over 90% of all rapes are committed by muslims, why do want the same for innocent Aussie women & girls?

Bear in mind the same sort of attrocities have already been committed in the land of OZ by second generation muslims born here.
Posted by Formersnag, Monday, 12 September 2011 12:13:32 PM
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