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The Forum > Article Comments > Torture is never legal and didn’t lead America to bin Laden > Comments

Torture is never legal and didn’t lead America to bin Laden : Comments

By Marjorie Cohn, published 16/5/2011

The assassination of Osama bin Laden has rekindled the discourse about the efficacy and legality of torture.

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Rhian,

We take your point. However, like cutting off of hands and beheading, blinding with acid is retribution and cannot be reversed.

With torture - the argument would be - the torturee determines when it will cease ... when information is given up.

Is torture effective? This is moot.

The following two articles may be of interest.

Waterboarding is part of training American military personnel endure.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2103/is_1_38/ai_n30977308/

Hastings Center confront the issue of doctors being in attendance during torture by waterboarding.
http://www.thehastingscenter.org/News/Detail.aspx?id=5368

Would one agree to a suspect being tortured if this could provide information about a pending terrorist attack? Does the pain (temporary) inflicted on the suspect outweigh the pain - and ultimate death - inflicted on innocent victims? Victims who are others' loved ones.

To all civilised minds, torture is abhorrent. But do the rights of an individual, who puts themself in this situation (and can cry 'halt') outweigh the collective rights of others?

Perhaps the solution would be to find a different method for extracting information than the crude method of torture. But ... this may be worse ...
Posted by Danielle, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 3:56:26 PM
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Danielle

I believe torture is wrong, even if it does yield useful information. The fact that much evidence suggests it doesn’t yield useful information merely compounds the evil of its use.

Your claim that the victim can halt torture any time assumes
a) The victim actually knows what the torturer thinks they know and
b) The torturer is satisfied that no more useful information can be gained from further torture.

The reality is that interrogators never have such perfect knowledge, and indeed in circumstances where terrorism threatens they are more likely to make misjudgements.

I lived in the UK at a time when the IRA was periodically bombing civilian targets on the mainland. The culture of fear and loathing that prevailed meant that Irish people were automatically under suspicion. Police and security forces were under great pressure to get convictions and prevent further attacks. They interrogated, prosecuted and even obtained convictions for people subsequently proved innocent. If these had been tortured to reveal information, they would not have been able to stop the process because they had no information to give
Posted by Rhian, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 4:42:41 PM
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it's simple basic ethics: one must not do evil even if good were to come out of it. Full stop.
Posted by SHRODE, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:47:10 PM
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I think this could be a philosopher's question.

We all know the trolley conundrum.

When discussing torture, the fact that the torturee has information, has to be a given.

I lived in Malaya during the Emergency and witnessed terrorist attacks. Seeing bloody and torn bodies, especially of children, gives one pause for thought.
Posted by Danielle, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 7:10:00 PM
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Dear Danielle,

It is not a given that the torturee has information. People have been tortured to reveal which of their neighbours has had intercourse with the devil. People have been tortured because torture has been prescribed as punishment. People have been tortured because they are under the power of a sadist who gets pleasure from torture. People have been tortured because they have been mistaken for someone else. People have been tortured as training for torturers.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 7:22:07 PM
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Dear David,

You are absolutely correct.

I wished to look at this issue from a specific point of view. Perhaps it was not quite apropros. Some posing this as a philosophical question would say that under these circumstances there is no correct answer.
Posted by Danielle, Thursday, 19 May 2011 12:07:55 AM
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