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The Forum > Article Comments > Multicultural food can't mask divisions > Comments

Multicultural food can't mask divisions : Comments

By Ben-Peter Terpstra, published 5/5/2011

Internationally multiculturalism is off the menu, and the only place you really find it in Australia is on the menu.

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The fact of the matter is is that we now all live in a multi-cultural world where everything is almost instantaneously inter-connected via the internet and rapid mass international travel.

There is nothing that anyone can do about it, especially in any short term time scale.

Any attempts to change this situation will necessarily involve comprehensive coercive measures including massive propaganda and/or "re-education" programs.

Welcome to the fascist future!

Plus the situation is further complicated by the fact that there are tens of millions of refugees on Europes door-step with no where to go.
These numbers will only increase in the near future and from now on.
The situation (as described today) in Egypt and other middle-Eastern countries points to this very real possibility
Posted by Ho Hum, Thursday, 5 May 2011 9:09:18 AM
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Ho Hum (author here): Please address the issues. There is plenty we can do to fight political correctness starting with the truth. Most Australians are not defeatists.

Nor is it true that we all live in a multicultural world. Many countries are not willing to water down their values for this week’s fashionable culture. France recently banned the burka, to my applause.
Posted by BPT, Thursday, 5 May 2011 10:03:38 AM
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"If it's good, multiculturalism must be praised; if it's bad, multiculturalism is immune from criticism." so true

That reminds me of Keating's attacks on anyone who questioned his brand of Asian diplomacy, you were "racist" to question anything to do with the ALP approach to Asia .. the left loved it, (because it's true!)

These days the first test of anything a conservative says is, "who is this offending?" and goes from there in order of priority with Australian aboriginals at the top and anglo saxon descended white males at the bottom ( and the bottom rung, believe me, does not rate .. evidently it cannot be offended)

If a "progressive" is offensive, like some silly white aboriginal lately, then she was taken out of context and anyway its a revenge attack and it was aprivate twitter anyway. If Andrew Bolt had twittered what she had, there would have been an outcry, seriously, a huge tanty by the left, led by the ABC of course.

Similarly with multicultural elements, they can immediately cry racist when they dislike any question or accusation, but seem to be immune to the same accusation being leveled at them. We can be called skips, whitey whatever, with complete immunity .. they had difficult upbringings and who can blame them, after all they might have come from a war or poverty ravaged country .. just excuses used to train them they are "special" with power derived from that.

Multiculturalism has failed, it never really got a chance because while many people like to live around other cultures, no one wants their culture diluted .. except modern western societies, who then have their tolerance used against them
Posted by Amicus, Thursday, 5 May 2011 11:16:39 AM
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The fact that the founder of Inspire was an advisor to Paul Keating is not relevant. Many ex-staffers and politicians become involved in organisations that help youth including Beyond Blue's Jeff Kennett.

I partly agree with some of your points although I suspect our long term visions might be different. It has a lot to do with the nature of multiculturalism and whether it is largely inclusive and involves integration and acceptance of the local laws and customs (including bacon on burgers).

Segregated multiculturalism does not work and as is evident in Europe. Integration is touted often as a dirty word but it is essential to harmonius communities as much as MUTUAL acceptance and tolerance for differing religious views.

There is no point nor is it desirable to have within a MC society zones where laws and some other customs might differ across the country. Where a women might not be able to walk through various areas with her head either uncovered or covered depending on her choice of destination and be subject to abuse.

New migrants should show respect to their chosen country just as I would if I moved to Saudi Arabia, although I would not choose that destination as it's values and customs are too different from my own.

Maybe MC will eventually be the answer to the world's woes ensuring that through integration it is our similarites that will be emphasised and not the differences. Generational change will sort the current problems out to some extent but the effort has to come from both newcomers and old-timers.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 5 May 2011 11:25:27 AM
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Amicus: Good points about Keating and so relevant to where we are now. They’re stuck in the 1990s. Labor doesn’t get it – even after the NSW election.

You’re right about this being a free speech issue too. I detest the many ways in which multicultural hysterics censor people. Some are just Stalinists at heart. Luckily, emotional blackmail doesn’t work on me (lol).

On a related note, Andrew Bolt recently linked my eyes to this report: “MORE than 60 per cent of refugees to Australia have failed to get a job after five years, according to a damning Federal Government report into the humanitarian settlement program.”
More: “And 83 per cent of those households now rely on welfare payments for income”! Meanwhile, Australian pensioners are going without gas and electricity to heat their homes. What a mess indeed.
Posted by BPT, Thursday, 5 May 2011 11:49:31 AM
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“The fact that the founder of Inspire was an advisor to Paul Keating is not relevant.”

Pelican: Actually when the said person is parroting Keating’s talking points from the 1990s it is an issue. Groupthink doesn’t always die.

If parroting Keating’s fantasy points is irrelevant, then why is he doing so? He is just echoing the old Labor position. Indeed, the fact that the founder of Inspire boasts about Keating on his websites today says it all.

At the end of the day, Islam and liberalism can’t coexist. The Europeans figured it out after Howard.
Posted by BPT, Thursday, 5 May 2011 11:56:15 AM
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BPT
Groupthink is not confined to proponents of multiculturalism. Perhaps Heath parrots the rhetoric from the Keating era because he wrote it. Politicians don't write their talking points and usually staffers are of the same ilk as their masters; it is irrelevant. Heath obviously believes in what he preaches.

However, there are certainly some versions of Islam that are not compatible with a free and liberal society and that needs to be addressed via immigration standards. There have been some vocal Muslim leaders who demonstrate contempt for Australian culture but I don't think they represent free-thinking Muslims who can accept a secular society given they have usually fled from oppressive regimes.

I agree there are double standards around culture and legal systems. Protecting one's culture is certainly perceived of less value if you are not a minority culture/religion. That is wrong. This mindset does nothing but stir the fires of discontent and works completely against successful integration.

The rights of immigrants do not outweight the rights of other citizens to protect their values of democracy, egalitarianism, equality for women, free speech etc against forces that would deny those accepted cultural norms.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 5 May 2011 12:15:43 PM
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Ben, what's your beef you seem to be mixing your dislike of Labor with you feelings about multicultural Australia.
While your eating your local middle-class indian and leering at the labor guys at the next table what arre you thinking.
That we should go back to the white Australia days?
or that non christains should be forced to convert?
or we should only be eating meat a three veg?
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 5 May 2011 12:21:11 PM
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kenny, can't you separate food originating in a different county to their culture?

I don't see the problem?

you can like french food while detesting the French people, surely?

You can dislike motor vehicles while riding on a bus?

Surely we can eat Indian food without having to accept the imposition of all Indian cultural values? They are uninvited cultural values, after all they come to join our society and while we're happy for them to keep traditions, we ask them to blend in with our way of life, which is obviously attractive, or they would not want to be here.

In fact if they do reject our cultural values, then did they just come here for economic reasons and have no intention of becoming part of our society?
Posted by Amicus, Thursday, 5 May 2011 12:35:55 PM
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Re-read what I wrote, I said he seems to be mixed up. that said food is apart of a culture as much as anything else, but lets forget food for the moment and answer the questions I possed.
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 5 May 2011 1:47:33 PM
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Dear Ben,

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

Your bio on the Ultra right-wing American web site you write for as a contributing editor says you are “an Australian-European satirist”.

I see a vast difference between the Australian, American and European cultures. I mean for instance the American gun culture scares the bejeepers out of me. Yet you seem to straddle these quite fluently.

You my friend are a multicuturalist in the most real sense.

Also I think you are speaking for a 'working class' Australia you may not be familiar with. If you do indeed live in regional Victoria go and watch some local footy or basketball. My daughter's boyfriend has Sudanese in his teams for both codes and there is a high degree of acceptance. The Winch team is a good example.

Final question, are you the Ben Terpstra I use to coach at basketball?
Posted by csteele, Thursday, 5 May 2011 3:31:52 PM
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“Ben, what's your beef you seem to be mixing your dislike of Labor with you feelings about multicultural Australia.
While your eating your local middle-class indian and leering at the labor guys at the next table what arre you thinking.
That we should go back to the white Australia days?or that non christains should be forced to convert? or we should only be eating meat a three veg?”

Kenny, is it? I’ve read many dumb comments in my life but yours are near the top.

First, Labor has supported multiculturalism, so why wouldn’t I have a beef with Labor? There’s no mixing here. Labor is responsible for the mess. Moreover, if you read the piece you’d know that I also criticised liberal Liberals.

Second, no I don’t think we should go back to the White Australia (another dumb Labor idea by the way). You’re confusing race with culture (a sign of projection prejudice, my guess).

Third, who said people should be forced to convert to Christianity? I didn’t. Turn it up. That “reasoning” is circular because Christianity is a voluntary religion. Are you just trying to find a red herring?

Fourth, if you read the piece again you’d understand that a culture can have ethnic food without multiculturalism. I’ve eaten ethnic food in mono-cultural Japan.

But by the way, why do you assume Australians were eating meat and free vege before multiculturalism? That’s just an anti-working class stereotype.
Posted by BPT, Thursday, 5 May 2011 4:01:26 PM
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Another oblique comment:

Ah, John Howard the great humanitarian visionary and supposed "realist"!

Never mind that he was a lying rodent and a very active supporter and jingoist for the coalition of the killing. The very deliberate intentions, and the devastating results of which are described at this reference.

http://erasingiraq.com

For which he was awarded the "freedom" medal by his fellow killing-coalition partner George W Bush.
Posted by Ho Hum, Thursday, 5 May 2011 4:02:06 PM
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IS IT POSSIBLE TO OVERDOSE ON "DIVERSITY"?

I realise that coming from a member of a tiny minority what I am about to write will strike many as hypocritical. Nonetheless in the end things are what they are.

I am becoming increasingly pessimistic about the robustness big multi-cultural polities. I doubt their ability to survive a “stress test” such as a prolonged and severe depression. In most of the world different cultures in the same polity do not get on well. Think of Lebanon(Sunni Shia Christian), Turkey (Kurds), Cyprus (Turks and Greeks), Pakistan (various), Nigeria (Muslim North vs Christian South), Egypt (Copts), Iraq (Sunni vs Shia vs Shia vs Christian), Kenya (various tribes) and the USA.

In the heart of Europe the Czechs and the Slovaks agreed to an amicable divorce. Belgium looks as if it might break up.

Kosovo and Montenegro broke away from Serbia

Sudan split between Sudan and South Sudan.

It is likely there will soon be no Christians left in many Middle-Eastern countries.

I am beginning to think that “diversity” is like vitamins. Just as the body needs vitamins so a country needs diversity or it turns inward looking and stagnates.

But just as it is possible to overdose on vitamins so it is possible to overdose on “diversity.”

I don’t like saying this. But in the end it is what it is.

BTW I do NOT think Australia is overdosing on “diversity” just yet. I think the USA is.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Thursday, 5 May 2011 4:30:30 PM
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Should we be proud of creating a superficial packaged-product, food-court definition of "culture", that is hardly unique to Australia, but exists, cookie-cutter cloned, in every other Western nation?

The mentality behind this supposed "sophistication" is no different to the elitist, imperial aristocratic one that wandered the globe, collecting nick-nacks to put on the coffee table back in London/Paris/wherever to impress your snobby friends.

Yet the multicultists would claim to despise such people, while mimicking them.

Here's what we *could* be proud of.

1. Maintaining our own recognisably distinct culture/ethnicity in the face of globalised universalist or multicultist tendencies.

2. Taking people *from* any background and successfully transforming them into "Australians" (rather than trying to transfrom Australia into everything-but-Australia).

3. If so desired, creating a *fusion* that incorporates elememts from other cultures into the existing one (this requires accepting there *is* an existing culture from which you must build).
Brazil is a fusion, with all the elements blended together, not kept in separate compartments with neat little labels.

Traditional and unique, assimilated multi-origin, or fusion.
We could be proud of any of those.

Cloned superficiality we cannot.
Posted by Shockadelic, Thursday, 5 May 2011 5:36:39 PM
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