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The Forum > Article Comments > Culture trouble - the ADFA, the Ministers, and the Commissioner > Comments

Culture trouble - the ADFA, the Ministers, and the Commissioner : Comments

By Jocelynne Scutt, published 18/4/2011

What can we expect from another cyclical inquiry into bastardisation and the Australian Defence Forces?

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Just what we need - more advice from human rights lawyers.

But she is right. It's terrible that the ADF is such a boys' club. We should immediately turn it into a girls' club.

The taliban will be furious. We can attack them with inquiries into their sexual discrimination. It's like they've never read an online Sydney Morning Herald poll before. We need some inquiries too. At least 7 will be necessary.

Don't they have a Equal Opportunities Commission over there? Barbarians.
Posted by dane, Monday, 18 April 2011 9:55:26 PM
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Oh dear, Keith!

Thanks for the potted rave, but you added nothing of interest regarding the actual purpose, operation, disciplinary processes of the institution currently known as ADFA.

Now, to turn to the Defence Forces Association's spokesperson's comments of this morning. That which impressed you so much appeared to some as mere bleatings coming from someone with a ready and loud opinion but no knowledge of, or involvement, in the situation. Typical ADFA response, I believe. They really need a new spokesperson.

Re-read the comment I submitted above and tell me why ADFA even exists and why the facts of the current controversy should not be investigated, hopefully in private and with a tenderness and consideration that has been absent thus far from those who support this nation's elite war machine.

For mine, I'd like to weigh the costs and the value of achievement of foreign aid on the same scales as those of the foreign adventures of our soldiers, sailors and airmen, but that will have to wait for another day.
Posted by JohnBennetts, Monday, 18 April 2011 9:59:51 PM
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I think it is a very perceptive article from Dr.Scutt.
Apart from Dane's unhelpful remarks, the readers have all had at least some grasp as to what Scutt is really getting, in examining one aspect of an example of socio-cultural dumbing down, how it operates in microcosm and where it can later connect with and impact on the wider culture and society. "Manufactured ignorance" ( and where it could lead ) is probably a bit reductionist, but I'll use the term anyway.
Joining the dots, we can see it is society in microcosm and that defence training is another victim of the culture wars waged by Howard and his hard core conservatives and the Labor right, via the structured alienation of defence personnel from society and vice versa.
Defence is no longer about training up intelligent people to do a job well, but commodification of a certain type of individuated personality; young, inexperienced, ignorant, toward a goal of ideological conditioning based on that naivity that now must precede even the defence training itself.
Will tomorrow's Hansonists be today's killers of civilian ethnic "others" in foreign war zones, as is alleged to have happened already in places like Iraq and Afghanistan?
Am thinking of the notorious "turkey shoot" in Iraq recently, featured on a number of recent current affairs docos, where US troops herded unarmed Iraqi civilians into a blind ally and executed them from helicopters, while the CO contentedly crooned "nice, nice" from his position away from the bloodbath?
Posted by paul walter, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 4:12:20 AM
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John Bennetts,

To be kind, you seem somewhat confused.

I had no intention of adding anything 'regarding the actual purpose, operation, disciplinary processes of the institution currently known as ADFA.'

I merely wanted to show the current controversy after an official and independant enquiry will likely have findings that will totally demolish many of the unsupported assertions/opinions as expressed by Jocelyn Scutt.

ie
1.That there is need for a review of the Defence Force disciplinary procedures in light of recent incidents.

2. That there are regularly revelations emanating from various parts of the Australian Defence Forces (ADF) on bullying, harassment, bastardisation (euphemistically named 'initiation ceremonies') and even suicide.

3. That there has been review after review after review conducted into what are merely asserted to be endemic problems within the military. There has only, from my knowledge, one serious review into bastardisation practises and that was in 1992.

4. That there is an 'iceberg' of hidden problems.

What will be found is that there have been many allegations, but not revelations, over a long period but after the 1992 enquiry none or very few have been substantiated.

A rant indeed.
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 9:54:55 AM
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Oh and John Bennets,

The Defence Force Association and it's spokesperson are not speaking on behalf of the ADFA nor the Defence Forces.

Clarity John, clarity usually exposes ... well you know ... truth. And that's what an independant enquiry will do.

I'm all for an independant enquiry into all aspects of this weeks disgraceful behaviours and their handling as well as the politicians antics.
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 19 April 2011 10:03:20 AM
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Our zeitgeist host,Ms Soutt's laborious tirade on the culture of the ADFA and ADF, borders on the hysterical. Citing deaths, and other misfeasance and abominations, really does her essay little credit.
Harassment, sexual and/or otherwise, occurs in all walks of Life, and hardly raises an eyebrow, much less a kerfuffle eg. David Jones, IBM, NRL, AFL etc fiasco.

The Skype imbroglio is taking on a new meaning. It is being hijacked by the Politicians, again. There's Smith, Minchin, Joyce, and newly elected Member for Denison - Andrew Wilkie. MP.

Cadet Officer Kate's squalid buffoonery in Fisher, admittedly does highlight the deficiencies in the Military. Ironically, whoever chose her pseudonym faux-pas, forgot Prince Andrew and Miss Middleton will tie the knot soon - in the greatest extravaganza this Century in London. Happily, there are no coincidental similarities.

Whatever veracity Wilkie earned, in the lead-up to his election, his 20 years in the ADF is clouded with his time as a senior cadet, where it appears, as a ring-master, he subscribed to demeaning childish pranks and what is euphemistically called " bastardization ". Willfully bullying, hazing, dehumanizing, etc,from members of the Elite Officer Corp ?

His stalwart accuser ex cadet Brenden Etchels, who was forced to resign his coveted career. There are many others.

Candidly. Mr Wilkie, you have lost me.
Posted by dalma, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 3:11:03 PM
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