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The Forum > Article Comments > Final briefing on same sex marriage > Comments

Final briefing on same sex marriage : Comments

By Alan Austin, published 8/3/2011

This transcript is just in from the Pearly Gates. Our source, Alan Austin, has dreamed a dream.

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I cant believe that in 2011 we are still trying to apply ancient scriptural authority that at very best are highly suspect and more importantly misunderstood and at best its like trying to hold new wine in old wine skins. So much guff from the Bible being quoted ad nauseum to find relevance for marriage in 2011.Just how ridiculous can you get. It is sickening.Please stop it.Relate to the modern dialogue.
socratease
Posted by socratease, Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:37:30 PM
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Hi again MaNiK JoSiAh. Thanks for this further comment. I agree with every statement you have made there.
My answer to your question is Yes. There is great consistency between the Hebrew books and all those of the New Testament. I am now with those who claim both Old and New Testaments teach sternly against the perversions of same sex relationships, but not against all same sex unions. (A recent position shift, so still exploring some of the implications.) You may find the dialogue with Runner, above, of interest.
Happy to discuss further.
Posted by Alan Austin, Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:46:50 PM
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I find the philosophy expressed by Ira Gershwin attractive and applicable to this discussion:

The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:53:06 PM
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In all fairness socratease, quoting the Bible is relevant in the discussion of an article that quotes the Bible! I have challenged the translation and interpretation of Scripture, in response to the author's ongoing discussion in this forum,but haven't yet given my view on homosexuality.

You said, "Just how ridiculous can you get. It is sickening.Please stop it;" and then take the moral high ground against other intolerant folk. Fair go mate.
Posted by MaNiK_JoSiAh, Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:55:51 PM
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The messiah is pure myth with no basis in reality. After the kingdom of David and Solomon broke up into Israel and Judah the messianic myth arose. Originally he was cast as a military leader who would reunite the two kingdoms to reconstitute the kingdom of David and Solomon. The myth grew until he became a figure who would usher in the messianic age where ‘nations should study war no more’ and ‘swords would be beaten into plowshares.’ Since Jesus did not usher in the messianic age and was singularly incompetent in producing a peaceful world he was obviously not the messiah.

However, like the JWs and other religious groups who prophesy the end of the world and make a new prophesy when it doesn’t happen, the believers in the Jesus myth altered the myth so he would come back and at the Second Coming would be able to do what he couldn’t do the first time.

If I hired a mechanic who was unable to find and fix the problem with my car I would not hope that he would come back and do it right the second time. I would re-examine my belief in the mechanic.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 17 March 2011 11:34:24 PM
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Dear Alan,

I think I would get a better hearing from an OT rather than a NT scholar but it is not something that concerns me.

Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. 
Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man. -Isaiah 47:2-3

I love the imagery of grinding millstones as a sexual metaphor. For those who enjoy extended, near static, sex it undoubtedly will have resonance.

However for every biblical metaphor to which we are still able to respond it is easy to imagine ten that have been lost to history. Once this is accepted then the vanity of expecting to flay each other with the 'truths' we purport to pull from this magnificent work is exposed.

For instance I would have little desire to place my arguments about Luke's take on the message of Jesus before a fundamentalist Christian in order to try and change his mind. 

We obviously desire different things from the scriptures and it is those desires that are the primary informers of our interpretations.

An understanding of this is the most I should expect from my fundamentalist.

Returning to my initial point it is interesting to note the latest American Revised Standard Bible omits the words holocaust and booty, and returns the Isiah verse about the virgin mother of the messiah to the original "young woman". Would we permit the same of a Shakespearian work?

I would hate to think grinding millstones might go the same way.
Posted by csteele, Thursday, 17 March 2011 11:36:15 PM
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