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The Forum > Article Comments > Multiculturalism: at what point does it stop being an inherent good? > Comments

Multiculturalism: at what point does it stop being an inherent good? : Comments

By Jenny Goldie, published 25/2/2011

Can multiculturalism be good when it incorporates cultures which do not mirror our own liberal, humanitarian and egalitarian culture?

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What a stupid and inane comment from Nicco.

The author cites Muslims referring to women as meat, as an example of the failure of multiculturalism and the sorts of values which we should reject as inconsistent with our liberal democratic values.
Yet the monoculturalism that she defends is guilty of the same failure.
The liberal democratic values which are the basis of her argument simultaneously cloak the kinds of sexist attitudes which she condemns. Muslims referring to women as meat will feel right at home in many white male dominated situations in Australia. If it's wrong for muslims, and is at odds with our liberal democratic values then where is the call to do something about what already exists here?
Oh but that would mean an admission that her whole argument is built around the creation of a straw (muslim) man.
The empress has no clothes.
Posted by shal, Friday, 25 February 2011 11:57:15 AM
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What a stupid and inane response from shal, who completely misses the point. No one is claiming that our Australian liberal democracy is perfect, but as a community we embrace certain ideals, and reject certain attitudes. Sexism is reprehensible wherever it occurs, but especially so when it is condoned by community leaders. This is not an argument for monoculturalism - it is an argument for the basic human rights which any citizen should expect.
Posted by nicco, Friday, 25 February 2011 12:39:01 PM
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The wearing of the niqab and the burqua is a terrible slur on Muslim manhood as it is based on the premise that Muslim men are unreliable lechers and despoilers of women. To protect the women they put them into the niqab and burqua. But what about men who are bestial ..according to their own mores ? Nothing is done to them. A woman could lose her life if caught in an extra-marital act but do you ever hear of the fate of the perpetrators of the sex act? Nothing happens. They are only being "typical boys" We hear of women being stoned to death, hung or decapittated. This part of Muslim culture must never be tolerated. There should be no such thing as "honor killing" ...it is naked murder and should be treated under law as such.

There is nothing redeemable in such acts which are advised under sharia law.

socratease
Posted by socratease, Friday, 25 February 2011 1:01:06 PM
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Nicco quit while you're behind.

What the author actually said appears to be irrelevant to you now. You have managed to re-shape the argument to suit your own ends.
I'll try and put it in terms that you understand.
The author was saying this:
1. multiculturalism works except when it is at odds with our liberal democratic values
2. Muslims say things like women are seen as meat. This is at odds with our liberal democratic values and therefore proves that multiculturalism has failed. Because we can't have attitudes that are at odds with our liberal democratic values we should reject multiculturalism.

However this argument against multiculturalism applies only to muolticulturalism. There are already elements of our society which hold similar and/or parallel views. BUT they are accepted and often condoned within our society becasue they're part of our existing Australian culture. We shouldn't apply the same test of suitability to attitudes and behaviours already existing in our society.
The author seems to be saying that our liberal democratic values are under threat ONLY when that threat comes from the outside.

Ergo: outside is bad. Inside is acceptable because it's part of our culture.
This is a patently stupid and unsustainable argument.
Posted by shal, Friday, 25 February 2011 1:04:02 PM
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I don't know what world the author lives in, but when it comes to setting women's liberation back a few decades you don't need to go find a couple of Imams. Try entire football teams, their managers and coaches, try women's magazines that teach every young woman that her appearance is the most significant thing about her, and it better be the RIGHT appearance if she wants to count as human in the world.

Not many Muslims controlling those cultural outlets in Australia. We do it all by ourselves.

On the other hand the Imams are easy to identify and shout down.

I'm sick of all this Muslim bashing - has everybody forgotten when nuns wore black from head to toe, never showed their hair or their ankles, and clanked about with wooden rosaries? We coped.

Attitudes expressed by a very small minority of Muslims are already well and truly present in Australian culture, and always have been. They're often sleepers, and so twice as insidious.

Yes, Western women can reveal their bodies, but my god at what cost. Unrelenting criticism and judgement, insecurity, self doubt and self mutilation.

Oh yes, we've got it right in the West. Personally I'd refer to cover up.

Maybe we don't actually SAY it in Australia about women, as do a couple of Imams, but anybody who thinks it isn't permeating every atmosphere is living in a bubble.

And some of the worst offenders are women criticising women.
Posted by briar rose, Friday, 25 February 2011 1:11:07 PM
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As so often occurs, the dicussion has been diverted from 'Multiculturalism' as a doctrine to multiculturalism. Either some commmentators here don't understand the difference or they're the ones attempting a straw man argument.

shal,

Where does the author defend monoculturalism? Societies are not perfect, so the best measure is relative and the relative position of women in Australian society is far superior to their situation in Islamic countries. "Muslims referring to women as meat will feel at home in many white male dominated situations in Australia". Is that attitude reinforced by our laws?

Do the majority of Australians favor something equivalent to Sharia, the segregation of the sexes at work or the stoning to death for 'adultery'? According to a recent Pew poll these are views held by a majority of 'democratic' Egyptians.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/01/egypts-conflicting-views-democracy-and-religion

Your tu quoque argument is nonsense, get some perspective.
Posted by mac, Friday, 25 February 2011 1:13:38 PM
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