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The Forum > Article Comments > 'Closing the Gap' Gillard style > Comments

'Closing the Gap' Gillard style : Comments

By Michelle Harris, published 17/2/2011

Gillard’s characterisation of the problem is grossly unfair to Aboriginal people and demonstrably inaccurate

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"Are we ready, after 223 years, to enter into a treaty that acknowledges the sovereign nations of this land?"

Seriously, what would be the point of that?

What benefit would this be, apart from the usual idealistic sentiments, like the great "Sorry" discussion and the following apology from PM Rudd.

What did the apology do? Have there been benefits?

We need to focus as the current PM is doing on realistic substantial policy and efforts to do something positive, and stop TALKING endlessly about nations and pride and everything else the aboriginal sorry industry goes on about.

I rarely agree with PM Gillard, but on this I, and most Australians, do.

" And Indigenous people know that when the child starts attending school ... when the drinker stops abusing alcohol ... when the adult takes the job that is there ... then change begins." somewhat cherrypicked by the author, but that's not unusual when reaching for emotive sentiment.

This is the reality of what the vast majority of Australians perceive aboriginal life to be .. whether you like it or not, aboriginals are reputed to clump together and demand all manner of services while wasting their lives.

It may not be the case, but it is certainly the perception .. changing perceptions is not done by signing treaties for some obscure self inflated reason, this is not New Zealand whose Maori fought a war and the treaty ended it .. there was no war, there is no reason for a treaty - it would only provide further reason for not engaging with the rest of Australia.

Reconciliation needs to start with aboriginals recognizing their own position and fixing it and not demanding others do it for them, yet again.

Mind you, it seems that's how the majority of aboriginals want to live, after 223 years, they have resisted all attempts by various governments to change .. perhaps we should withdraw and leave them alone?

I guess the treaty debate you would like to have would be another endless gravy train of travel and meetings, good for some ..eh?
Posted by rpg, Thursday, 17 February 2011 6:38:49 AM
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It is a really complex problem.
I was chatting to a guy in Bachelor near Darwin years ago. He had recently given up work and moved back to the camps to live a more "traditional" lifestyle. The reason? His home was regularly used by drunk relatives as a drop-in centre. His food was taken, furniture trashed and was often embarrassed at work, not to mention his neighbours.
He faced a stark choice: Become fully "white" and face the anger of his people, or abandon the half-way lifestyle.
Despite being qualified and hard-working, he felt that his culture demanded that he was one or the other. He chose his own culture of course even though this meant a simple life with few assets, few opportunities and the need to accept charity (Which he hated and resented, even while knowing it was necessary to live).
We've tried taking children away, we've tried military intervention, and we've tried expulsion to unproductive lands plus charity. (which was no solution). Leaving them alone is not acceptable as the lifestyle involves high infant mortality and a very high chance of disease and death. There is also the fact that the West acquired all the best land and has only allowed limited "traditional ownership" of the marginally productive lands. (If wealth is found then the laws are changed!)
I have no idea what can work.
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 17 February 2011 8:43:29 AM
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I wont put forward the pretence that I have all the answers to the 'aboriginal problem'. But decades of liberal guilt has achieved virtually the same results as decades of ignoring them and treating them as 2nd class citizens. Im 53 years old and apart from having the vote, nothing has changed whatsoever. It is pretty obvious that we do not have the capacity or the wisdom to improve the situation. Great men and women have tried and failed miserably and the list of successes is incredibly sparse. It would be simplistic to say that aboriginal people resist our efforts - but not wrong. The vast majority of australians actually WANT a solution, but no one has any idea what it is. It is hard to give jobs to people who cannot read and write because their parents refused to send them to school. It is hard to employ people who live in places where there are no jobs. It is hard to help people who refuse to change.

The solution will never come from white men; it will come from aboriginals themselves. Unfortunately, the few that try are met with apathy and opposition - from their own people.

I am not optimistic about there EVER being a solution to the problem because each generation repeats the mistakes of the previous one and frankly, seems to have an almost undetectable desire to improve themselves.

We can't fix the problem and the only people who can, wont.

As politically incorrect and borderline racist though it may be, it is an incredibly obvious fact that while some cultures thrive and grow and overcome obstacles, some make a virtue out of remaining stone-age. And in every single case they disappear or remain disadvantaged and oppressed. Like it or not, there is no place in the 21st century world for a stone-age culture with a stone-age mentality. The solution is in their own hands and always has been. The trouble is that only 10-20 of them understand that at any one time.

So yes, Im frustrated and Gillard was right.
Posted by longweekend58, Thursday, 17 February 2011 8:43:31 AM
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OZandy: your friend made the wrong choice. This was what I was talking about in my post. He had to choose between success and failure and chose failure. Yes, he had to choose one culture over another, but perhaps that best underlines the real nature of the problem. It is something whispered in the dark in hushed tones that we feel ashamed of saying: that aboriginal culture is a failed one and one that is totally incompatible with life today. As ugly as it sounds perhaps the only solution that exists is total integration. I dont really know. I am just frustrated beyond measure at the absolute failure of any attempt to improve things.
Posted by longweekend58, Thursday, 17 February 2011 8:50:28 AM
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Well said Michele but the PM made the speech - yes ill-briefed - but she made the speech and has to be held to account. The tone and sentiment were very disappointing and reminiscent of Margaret Thatcher and in my view that is pretty low.

You note Paul Keating's Redfern speech. The PM needs to read that especially the bit that goes: "the starting point might be to recognise that the problem starts with us non-Aboriginal Australians".

Gavin Mooney
Posted by guy, Thursday, 17 February 2011 9:13:34 AM
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Thanks Michelle.

Not the first time Gillard has sounded like Maggie Thatcher.

The "Our Generation" movie http://www.ourgeneration.org.au/ makes it pretty clear the motive (or a major motive) behind the intervention was grabbing the land back for the miners. Saving the children had little or nothing to do with it.
Posted by Geoff Davies, Thursday, 17 February 2011 9:35:09 AM
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Geoff Davies: you do yourself no favours by repeating the leftie argument that the intervention was to get land for the miners. The greens dont agree nor do the ALP or Libs. The intervention was to try and stop abuse and a variety of other serious social problems. it was a harsh solution to a major problem. I applaud Howard in doing it and Labor in supporting and continuing it.
Posted by longweekend58, Thursday, 17 February 2011 9:44:53 AM
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Wow, did Gillard actually get something right at last? Wonders will never cease.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 17 February 2011 9:53:08 AM
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longweekend58: I thought so too, but then I realised I've never been given such a choice: To completely reject the friends, family and culture I grew up with...to join the "invaders".
Somehow the choice must be made less stark...but how?
It is very frustrating when you realise most attempts to "fix" make things worse...doing nothing just extends the shameful situation. It's all very well to claim that "in the long term" ancient ways of life must modernise...quite another to deal with real people on the ground.
I'm currently working in the Sth Pacific and there are similar issues with indigenous cultures there. Aid gives hope...but also makes some problems worse. Too tricky for anything simple to work.
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 17 February 2011 10:02:36 AM
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For someone who can be removed from office purely by reason of her gender with simple majorities of Australia's parliaments rescinding or suspending legislation which enfranchised women in the first place, Prime Minister Julia Gillard has some gall calling for indigenous people "to respect good social norms and to respect the law"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pms-closing-the-gap-speech-on-indigenous-australia-in-full/story-fn59niix-1226002750396. Ms Gillard should guarantee Australian women exactly the same tenure as men before inviting others to participate in her governance.
Posted by whistler, Thursday, 17 February 2011 10:11:25 AM
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" And Indigenous people know that when the child starts attending school ... when the drinker stops abusing alcohol ... when the adult takes the job that is there ... then change begins." somewhat cherrypicked by the author, but that's not unusual when reaching for emotive sentiment.
Did she really say that ?
Well, good on her. All she has to do now is to get the do-gooders in line & I'll start listening.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 17 February 2011 10:23:18 AM
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"the starting point might be to recognise that the problem starts with us non-Aboriginal Australians".
Gavin,
He was referring to himself but never practiced what he preached.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 17 February 2011 10:25:24 AM
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the poor abos were simple cavemen when the poms discovered Australia; you cant expect these poor wretches to live in a civilised society after only 250yrs. They cant even clean their kid's faces...hence the massive trachoma infections (unseen in white society)
Posted by peter piper, Thursday, 17 February 2011 11:52:18 AM
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I agree entirely with Julia Gillard, Aboriginal people need to look forward and not keep looking back.
Education is the answer, Aboriginal people must be urged to send their children regularly to school, once this generation is educated and they see what they can achieve with an education there will be no holding them.
I also feel that Aboriginal people must use English as their first language. I feel that it is time Aboriginal people took charge of their lives and stopped expecting to be supported. Around outback towns it is called "sit down" money, this is what most Aboriginal people do in outback towns "sit down".
I don't think Aboriginal people can expect to live like they did in the past, they must educate themselves and work like everyone else has to do. Supporting oneself and your family leans towards self respect.
It is time Aboriginal people faced the alcohol, abuse, neglect and lack of education problems head on. This is not racist this is just saying how things are.
Posted by MAREELORRAINE, Thursday, 17 February 2011 12:08:08 PM
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Having lived and worked with aboriginals over many years one has to congratulate Ms Gillard for at last stating a truth. I wish she was wrong but she is 100% right. I have seen the situation Ozandy describes many times over. As long as we allow the academics who sit on their bums in Canberra to determine that its fine for a group of people to sit around camps drinking, fighting and running amuck things will never change. Idleness always leads to trouble and visit any WA Regional town and you will see plenty of that. I am still very torn between the belief of the stolen or saved generation. Many kids I see today if any other colour than black would of been saved many years ago. Political correctness along with the false exaltation of abhorrent cultural practice (hidden form the academics due to blindness). Recent arrivals to Australia (in Regional centres) can not believe what they see having been brainwashed into thinking the problem is that Australians are rednecks. Well some are but the problem lies much more with the academics in denial and the lack of leadership among the aboriginal people. Noel Pearson who is berated by the left is an outstanding leader who shows what could be when things are done right.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 17 February 2011 12:29:34 PM
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MAREELORRAINE it's also about time the parliament had a women's legislature so Aborigines can make decisions like they've always done.
Posted by whistler, Thursday, 17 February 2011 4:30:33 PM
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It's a long row to hoe. The indig; are making decisions, and that is to do nothing. Two days out of five for school. Living a life of nothing.
Why is not the stolen generation seen as a positive, The progeny of these lot are the university attenders. I don't see any of these people going back to join the tribe. They know to much to even think about it.
For their own good to bring this to a conclusion is to segregate the young from the elders, or else the cycle will keep going around. and around, with no conclusion ever.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 17 February 2011 4:58:56 PM
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hoe hoe hoe ... the univesity attendees are the tribe. so where's the women's legislature 579?
Posted by whistler, Thursday, 17 February 2011 5:36:17 PM
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Runner,
the lefties must be writhing in frustration for having failed to drag Noel Pearson down to their mentality.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 17 February 2011 6:47:31 PM
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Give the entire country - 'lock stock & barrel' back to the various Northern Land Councils, Central Land Councils et al for 5 years... no interference from Kartiya laws, 'Do Good' Whiteys, & let's watch the whole lot slide into oblivion.

Then when it is a complete cesspit - because most of these oxygen thieves want to live like what you actually see around any NT population centre, maybe the UN will see it for what it is and actually take notice of folks who have tried to convince paternalistic government(s) & vested interests from throwing good money at the "problem".

Port Keats, Nguiu, Borroloola, Tennant Ck, Katherine, doesn’t matter where, because alcohol, gunja, amphetamines and other illicit commodities are being smuggled in under the noses of authorities anyway. I personally observed Sylvatech employees plying under age local girls with booze & dope & rang the local NT cop. Writing personally to Marion Scrymgour, & other MLA’s had no effect, & I only ever got an ‘official’
acknowledgement from the then Chief Minister - who happened to be my neighbour.

Like career Centrelink recipients of more reflective skin qualities, the career oxygen thieves are on a gravy train of epic proportions. The Intervention was (& still is) an ongoing farce. Witness the Territory Alliance shemozzle & other rorts by contractors ongoing in communities.

Ozandy, your friend from Batchelor is not alone, nor is he an isolated example of his kinfolks plight, there are many in similar straits all over Oz.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Thursday, 17 February 2011 7:03:36 PM
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One wonders at a "human rights" campaigner in denial of the realities she writes about. She says:

"The implication of this statement being that it is broadly applicable to Aboriginal people - children don’t attend school, alcohol is abused, and opportunities for work ignored."

Regrettably schools with high Aboriginal populations continue to have attendance well below average and in a number of remote regions up to 70% of children do not regularly attend school.

Not all aboriginal people drink, but those who do have binge rates well above the rest of the population and can render whole communities dysfunctional. Substance abuse is endemic in what are supposed to be dry communities and recent press coverage of the state of Alice Springs is a further demonstration.

Unemployment is three time higher than for non indigenous people, despite 70% of Aboriginal people living within mainstream employment markets - where there is near full employment and labour shortages. CDEP was not "employment", it was largely dysfunctional and called sit down money. Importantly, the writer sought to characterise unemployment only as a feature of remote communities.

The inference that all of Aboriginal land has been compulsorily acquired is a simple fabrication. Around 1-2% of Aboriginal land was acquired under 5 year leases in the NT, on just terms, in order to guarantee access to publicly funded spaces. It had nothing to do with mining as at least one poster suggested because 98% of the broadacre holding in the NT remains in the direct hands of the traditional owners. Again, while the "gap" applies broadly, it is worth noting that 60% of Aboriginal people have no connection with traditional land and the Intervention measures only applied in the NT.

Notably she ignores Income Management. Because it has been shown to work?

The gap is largely economic and when children go to school and people are in real jobs, much of the gap will disappear, including the health gap because those in regular employment and who have completed school have 20% better health outcomes than those who do not.
Posted by gobsmacked, Monday, 21 February 2011 6:50:19 AM
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Thank you Gobsmacked. It is rare to see somebody who has informed, balanced and factually-based views bothering to make a posting on these sites in debates over Indigenous issues. If only Michele Harris was willing to do some detailed research before she decides to pontificate to us about things of which she has so little direct knowledge. I hope she reads your posy and takes it seriously.
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Monday, 21 February 2011 9:17:11 AM
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