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The Forum > Article Comments > Not all leaks are created equal > Comments

Not all leaks are created equal : Comments

By Antony Loewenstein, published 11/2/2011

When it comes to unknown unknowns, Wikileaks is head and shoulders the best source.

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Partly correct Arjay, though not as simple an issue.
It's not so much a system of control by private companies (as it is, their control is limited to the monopolies on some consumerables, and privatized assets)
-as much as it is a system where politics attracts dishonest, incompetent business-world rejects whose sole objective is to get into government and use it as a launching pad into the ranks of the top companies by doing favors while in government (refer to Bob Carr's relationship with Macquarie Bank as a good example).

For actual powers, it very much is distributed among government, even our money, debts, inflation rates are set by governments or bodies that answer directly to governments- it is merely that, again, the government is perfectly free to corrupt the process by altering it to suit people who can do them favors.

Media-wise, every boss of a commercial channel and newspaper press would have his preferred party (again, these too are businessmen who would have a lot of preferred policies in mind) who would of course make their programming favor their own preferred party:
Sadly, as Australia only has three commercial networks and two newsprint companies, this coverage is far more constrained.

All it takes of course is for more people to change their attitude as voting citizens- which is made most possible by leaking every act of misconduct they commit- thus ensuring that voters have the means to be more responsible and know more of which candidates are crooked.
Hence why I support all the leakers (and of course direct-democracy, where bribing half a nation into a bad policy is much harder)).
Posted by King Hazza, Monday, 14 February 2011 7:28:07 PM
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Hazza,

On your support for all leakers: I wonder if the leaking of all of China's (or Russia's) secret emails would have the people out in the streets demanding the overthrow of their governments.

No, perhaps not: that's the tragedy of socialism gone wrong. But live in hope :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 14 February 2011 8:54:45 PM
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No chance of that Loudmouth- given that the Chinese people can't exactly vote, and are well-aware of how the Chinese government brutally deals with non-violent protesters, secessionists (or just people whose houses stand in the way of progress!), there is no way anyone would want to risk calling them out on bad policies.
Leaking over there would be a waste of time- and as the people are so used to having the same one government (and taught that if it were compromised they'd have anarchy), they'd fear the leaks as a destabilizing cause.

We, on the other hand are lucky in that we- voting citizens of a free country, actually CAN benefit from the leaks and can change our votes, lobby for different policy- anything at all.
Hell, if a bad policy gets leaked before it is implemented, the government might scuttle it altogether to avoid the backlash.
And because our governments are so easy to replace, there isn't even any risk of instability either- the party- or just crooked members- will simply be voted out in favor of someone who doesn't have a mile-long leak record.
(and the only great change that might occur is demand for more transparency and more direct-democracy- which are both improvements in my book)

To put it another way, a leak is absolutely useless to citizens of a dictatorship unless they feel like grabbing a gun, staring down the army and overthrowing the government:
For citizens of a democracy, leaks do us a HUGE favor that we can use however we like.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 9:12:14 AM
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Well put Hazza. How an earth can a democracy function without access to information to make informed choices. And that is only one part of it, transparency reduces the opportunities for corruption and brings in accountability. It is clear to see why those in power might shudder at the thought but I am surprised by the comments on OLO especially Arjay, who has always pushed for more open government.

Why are people so scared of having access to what corporations or governments are doing often in the 'national interest'. Who decides the national interest and at what cost to others.

Did people see the interview with Assange on 4Corners and 60 Minutes this week? The fellow has been targeted for merely publishing documents as any other journalist has done since the free press.

No organisation is without problems and no organisation should be protected from criticism, but all there is a lot of distracting nonsense written about Assange and WL.

Comments by some extreme right wing commentators and some Conservative politicians calling for his assassination make you wonder who is the real enemy of State.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 9:30:37 AM
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Pelican,

Yes but remember that Assange hasn't been charged at all yet with anything associated with Wikileaks, and surely any government has to go through the process - if somebody spills the beans on sensitive issues - of clarifying whether or not an offence has been committed or some damage been done or lives been threatened. So far, given that he remains uncharged, there does not appear to be any crime involved. So end of hysteria, from both Right and Left :)

Hazza,

You may be right, but what is sauce for the Tunisian and Egyptian ganders may be sauce for the Chinese goose:

"To put it another way, a leak is absolutely useless to citizens of a dictatorship unless they feel like grabbing a gun, staring down the army and overthrowing the government' - precisely as they did in Tunisia and Egypt, and will probably do elsewhere, including, I hope, Iran.

As well, the people across China have Hong Kong as some sort of model, not to mention Taiwan. We don't hear much about it but every year, there are something like 100,000 demonstrations or confrontations or upheavals across China. Yes, consequently, I'm sure, there are millions in their prison camps, but if anything this us surely an incitement to all their relatives never to give up ?

As well, China has a long, long history of repression and revolt, of seeming stability or stagnation, and sudden brutal and catastrophic fragmentation - the Wars around 0 BC/AD, at the end of each dynasty, the Taiping Revolution in the mid-nineteenth century, the period after the 1911 Revolution. Yes, China has a huge army to keep the people down, but frustration occasionally trumps brute force. It's a big country.

Live in hope :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 10:12:02 AM
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I hope so too Loudmouth- especially in Iran (though I can tell you, the Chinese public are, by large, overwhelmingly supportive of the system they have, so we'd have to make-do with willing submission for stability for now).

And I'm glad you've also noticed how much of both the 'Right' and 'Left' are reacting to this. The sooner this fails to be seen as a 'left' or 'right' issue, the better the world will be!

-
Indeed Pelican, it's a knee-jerk impulse by some supporters, of course.
In all societies, many people bristle at a threat to government as an immediate threat to stability:

Continuing my earlier point, if a government in a dictatorship is threatened and loses favor with the people (or attacked from outside), it creates instability and anarchy, as the system required that this government, with no replacement clauses, stay in place indefinitely for order to exist.

But in a democracy the whole point is that we are SUPPOSED to sack a government that fails to stay in our favor, with endless methods to help us cheaply and easily change the government around as we see fit. The transition is harmless, and we even have clauses that allow us to operate without a government (the hung parliament). All the consequences of a government getting into trouble over here is only good news for this country.
It is merely people that react before they think, and assume anybody rocking the boat = terrorist or anarchist.
But again, it would only result in anarchy if this were a dictatorship. In a democracy we can insist upon better with only things to gain.

Which is why I keep saying that those uncomfortable with leaks would be more at home living in a dictatorship- because being insecure when learning the truth because "we 'need' the individuals currently holding government to maintain order" would actually have some merit over there- over here, and in the USA, they're nothing but irrationally paranoid slobs who actually PREVENT democracy from happening.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 10:25:57 AM
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