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The Forum > Article Comments > Worldwide concentration of wealth: what the figures say > Comments

Worldwide concentration of wealth: what the figures say : Comments

By Daniel Raventós, published 29/10/2010

The GFC wasn't so bad for the super rich after all, but they want to use it as a tool to make it worse for the rest of us.

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Very encouraging that the author designates the situation as "class war". Antagonism in wealthy countries that even approaches the proportion of a dynamic has been under control for decades thanks to the postwar boom, permanent war economies, Keynesian economics (funded by these), the end of the cold war, and the big one, bourgeois ideology (notwithstanding that a concomitant pattern of bust and boom has attended this homogenising ideological trend, just as predicted).
The spectre of Marx looms large again at the reality of gross and indefensible disparities that are increasingly unprotected by the crumbs and leavings of welfare. Indeed, obscene wealth is increasingly thrown into stark relief by the "austerity measures" inflicted upon the masses to defend it--the monumental effrontery!

Viva le revolution!
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 29 October 2010 7:11:33 AM
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Congratulations on your update on what is a gross obscenity that constitutes the being of the dominant economic system, capitalism, especially when thinking of the billions who "live" on $2 or less a day. There is a causal relationship between the two states of existence and your reminder that this is "class war", activated on a relentless moment by moment basis by the rich and powerful it must also be said, is spot on. The solution is in redistribution from the rich to the poor, and I mean mega re-distribution, not crumbs from the table. By the way, as I wait for the laughable defenders and cheerleaders of wealth accumulation to make their case, I am (like most real humans) not envious of the rich. I wait also for the champions of philanthropy and charity to present their case yet again.
Posted by DonaldS, Friday, 29 October 2010 10:55:37 AM
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Ah, the human foible of envy returns once again. Personally I
am quite pleased that the rich use and risk their capital,
to create things like the internet, cheap computers, cell phones
and all the rest. My quality of life have improved because of them.

Given that Western Govts spend around 40-50% of GDP, we hardly
live in a capitalist economy, but a mix of private enterprise
blended with much social welfare.

The last organisation to try and screw me blind, by charging
me 9$ an hour for intenet access was in fact Telstra, when it
was Govt owned. The staff got fat at Telstra, stuff the consumer.
That is what invariably happens, when Govts run things and there
is no competition in the marketplace.

Take away the assets of the rich, as is being suggested, then
we'll all be poor, for there will be nobody bothering to create
wealth. But clearly that would satisfy the envy that exists now.

Stop blaming the plight of the 3rd world on capitalism. Take a look
at their politicians for good reasons why they are poor.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 29 October 2010 11:29:19 AM
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"By the way, as I wait for the laughable defenders and cheerleaders of wealth accumulation to make their case, I am (like most real humans) not envious of the rich"

hahaha .. good one, cause you're not
Posted by Amicus, Friday, 29 October 2010 11:45:17 AM
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Am I envious of people with 30 megabucks of readies?

You bet I am. I am looking at a new bicycle. It costs $2,500. If I had 30 megabucks I wouldn’t hesitate!

But that is not the issue. The problem with this article is that the author conflates two separate issues.

Issue 1:

There are wealthy people in the world and, when times get tough, they do better than the rest of us. Thus was it ever and thus will it always be. It is part of the human condition.

Issue 2:

Rotten banks were bailed out.

That is the OBSCENITY.

The fact that it was often done with money taken from the not-so-wealthy only makes it worse.

The consequences are severe. The rotten banks and their rotten business cultures remain to poison the global economy. Instead of getting rid of the cancer it lives on.

The strength of capitalism has always been creative destruction. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

Part of creative destruction is that enterprises with maladapted business models fail. This results in short term pain but clears the way for a new round of innovation.

Capitalist creative destruction was supposed to be in contrast to the socialism where the taxpayer is required to keep dysfunctional bureaucracies and agencies going. (Think Australia’s public education system).

By bailing out the banks we have combined the worst features of capitalism with the worst features of socialism. For most of us it’s all pain without clearing the way for future gain.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 29 October 2010 3:07:13 PM
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The hilarious part about all this.. is that probably the RICHEST capitalist of all.. is a LEFT WING SOCIALIST ..i.e.. GEORGE SOROS.

He uses is 'capitalist acquired' squillions to fund left wing organizations which are dedicated to destroying capitalism ? does that make even the slightest sense to anyone ? It's a fact though.

Soros
Strong
Gore
Obama (their puppet)

and many others ar also doing the very same thing. Don't get me started about the GREENS!

But.. now it can be revealed... they are GENE challenged and cannot help themselves. We must have pity on those who rely on capitalism to get the funding to destroy it....and themselves in the process.
It's irrational....sure..but.. it's genetic...they can't help themselves.
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/101028_liberal
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 29 October 2010 4:21:07 PM
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AIR George Soros is not stupid.He like most of the super elites love socialism since they can make even more money.High taxing Govts means more money for the banks,drug companies,insurance companiesetc.The nanny state wants us all to be super safe and there is a price for it.

The object of Soros and his cronies is to destroy production for the middle class so they can buy up their assests for cents on the dollar.They did it in the 1890's depression,the 1930's depression and are doing it again now. http://secretofoz.com/
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 29 October 2010 6:19:38 PM
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Redistributing the wealth of the rich to each of the rest would give each one about $8000, not exactly a princely sum.

"Stop blaming the plight of the 3rd world on capitalism. Take a look
at their politicians for good reasons why they are poor."

Yabby, you forgot to include the Christian church which particularly in South American countries, continues to feast on the bones of the poor.

As to the contents of the article, I must repeat the comments of one previous poster.
"Twas ever thus"

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Friday, 29 October 2010 6:28:59 PM
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The drones of the capitalist system are out in force on this thread, like so many trained parrots. Have you ever had a complex thought between the lot of you? One that goes beyond rationalising the happy state of ignorant bliss you happily find yourselves scratching in? Don't you ever get sick of the same mind-numbing mantra---squawk squawk squawk! Has it never occurred to you to adopt a self-critical perch (you and your flock), just to ponder the meaning of it all; or wonder if life might be ... I dunno ... different in some way? Did you never think (that's a skewering question in itself) that maybe you're a product of one ideology (and a rather nasty one at that)? Do you think you'd be crowing so loudly if you'd been born in different circumstances and the pickings were slim?
Here's a dedicated skit just for you guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJzQiemCIuY&feature=related

But come to think of it, you lot aren't parrots, you're scavenging birds; you don't question the ethics of society, road-kill, you just tuck in.
Bon appetit!
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 29 October 2010 7:11:37 PM
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One could argue that anybody who has - or wishes to have - an income that extends beyond subsistence to the purchase and maintenance of assets (the home, the bank account that pays interest, the superannuation, etc.) is an advocate of wealth accumulation. Those who cry because others accumulate wealth at a faster rate are simply sooking like little children.

Squeers, your polemic against "the drones of the capitalist system" (read: those with jobs [possibly even yourself - I don't know]) really is laughable. Have you had a career in politics? Your ability to use a lot of words to say nothing concrete whatsoever is remarkable.
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 29 October 2010 7:54:49 PM
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*The drones of the capitalist system are out in force on this thread*

Not drones Squeers, some of us are workers. The drones sit in
Govt, or in academia, contemplating their navels at our expense.
Some don't even realise that its our work that pays their bills
and bankrolls their cushy lifestyle.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 29 October 2010 7:57:45 PM
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True Yabby ,some of the drones live in the Public service,but the majority of them live in the banking system.$ 91 billion of new money is added to the Australian economy annually to equal increases in production and inflation.

Those who produce this new money own this new production.Why should a select group of private banks own what should belong to all Australians? This is the central and fundamental issue of debate.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 29 October 2010 9:26:44 PM
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*Those who produce this new money own this new production*

Arjay, Pericles and I have been over and over and over this one
with you, but frankly its like talking to a brick wall, you just
don't get it. You clearly never will, yet your obsessive fetish
remains. There is no more that I can do for you, sorry.

Banks increase the money supply by lending out money which they
have borrowed, minus reserves. It is the same money that was there
in the first place, going around and around. Banks do not magically
produce money from nowhere, only reserve banks can do that and their
profits go to the Govt.

You are free not to use banks. Borrow off your mate down the road
or whoever you like. I am not free not to pay taxes.

You too Arjay, can obtain a banking license and comply with all the
rules. It is a free and open market. Most Govt agencies have
no competition.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 29 October 2010 10:17:53 PM
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WTF?

Time for some honesty everyone.

The truth of the matter is that if you live in Australia you certainly have your snout well and truly in the trough.

By an accident of birth or just good luck we all get a share of the mining and agricultural profits that we get by flogging stuff off to others.

Everything else that happens – a business venture, say, selling furniture or a public service job or a bogan bonus or anything else is just the way we choose to get our snout into that trough.

So much of Australian politics is about how much time we get to spend at the trough.
The Aussie battler is a pig bloated with his or her share of the national wealth.

As fat and as privileged as we are some of us look around at other piggies and complain that they are fatter than us and therefore life is so unfair.

The lottery of life has rolled us all 6 winning numbers – enjoy it while it lasts.
Posted by WTF?, Saturday, 30 October 2010 12:37:09 AM
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Poor old Squeersy :)

//Don't you ever get sick of the same mind-numbing mantra---squawk squawk squawk!//

Hmm well there you go...I thought the 'prize' for mantra saying went to the left?

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" etc.
"We must TAX the rich.. and utopia will ensue"

Sorry squeersy..I gave you the facts on that issue.. tax the rich and the rich move to Florida or Bermuda or somewhere.

I suppose you could always erect another 'wall' to keep them in the country eh ? :)

Tax the rich and they will simply 'stop' pouring their creative energy into anything which could make money...because the Socialists removed the incentive.

"BUT" you say... "they are wrongly motivated.. greedy bastards, only thinking of themselves"

Well..in some cases.. it's true. In fact.. just like socialist union leaders looking after themselves and their fat exhorbitant pay packets.. true there too.

That's why that 'opiate' explains human behavior in these words "All have sinned" In fact the first 3 chapters of Romans goes to great lengths to point out that very fact.

Sin is the problem and Christ and his forgiveness and renewal is the answer. "Believe it..or not"
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 30 October 2010 11:00:50 AM
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Yabby and Pericles say that banks should be sole creaters of new money in our economies.Money has no intrinsic worth.Money represents human endeavour and potential.If a select few are able to own this potential and endeavour by the mere power of creating it in their computers,then we as a society have a serious inequity that neeeds addressing.

If you cannot see this Yabby,then either your synapses are not connecting,or you truely believe that greed and priviedge is good to the detriment of the common good.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 30 October 2010 9:26:32 PM
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Arjay, yet again. Money is a means of exchange.

Banks do not create it from nothing, unless they are reserve banks,
acting on behalf of their Govts. Profits from this endevour, go
to the Govt, thus the taxpayer.

Let me put it to you another way Arjay, in the hope that it might
just sink in, but its only hope, I doubt it.

If banks could not lend out the money that is deposited with them,
as you suggest, then banks would pay you nothing to store your
money, in fact they would charge you a hefty feed to guard your
money. Your savings would sit there losing value, due to bank
charges. It costs banks a substantial amount to have that young
lady there smiling at you, when you want to do a transaction. You
would pay the full cost, as banks could not recover it elsewhere.

You would be losing all along, but that has not yet dawned on you.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 30 October 2010 10:13:40 PM
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*Sin is the problem and Christ and his forgiveness and renewal is the answer. "Believe it..or not"*

Ah Boaz, I thought of you earlier on. CNBC had a programme called
"American Greed" where 4000 Christians were fleeced, as they
believed. 21$ million this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_cars_scam

So it seems that your believers are clearly a pretty gullible
lot.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 30 October 2010 10:42:31 PM
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Squeersy

you say:

//The spectre of Marx looms large again at the reality of gross and indefensible disparities that are increasingly unprotected by the crumbs and leavings of welfare. Indeed, obscene wealth is increasingly thrown into stark relief by the "austerity measures" inflicted upon the masses to defend it--the monumental effrontery!//

Amazing stuff indeed.

I suggest this.

The "obscene wealth" which is truly obscene is that for which people have not WORKED for it or used their innovative skills to create it.

i.e. UNION LEADERSHIP squillions. They feed of the capitalist free market system which creates the wealth..and undermine it by promising ever increasingly unsustainable 'crumbs' to gullible workers who swallow the tripe and when the company is destroyed and they lose the jobs.. (to Communist China of course) they just wander around glazed eyed and furrowed browed... but hey..'VIVA LA REVOLUTION'

The only people who will be the obscene mega rich after any such "revolution" are those pulling the financial leavers of the Left..

-George Soros (FINANCIER OF LEFT WING THINK TANKS and MEDIA)
-Andy Stern (SEIU)
-Richard Trumpka (AFLCIO)
-Al Gore (GLOBAL WARMING)
-Kathy Zoi (GREEN ENERGY FRAUD)
-Bob Carr (BENEFICIARY OF GORE/ZOI GLOBAL WARMING PROPOGANDA)
-Maurice Strong (MAIN DRIVING FORCE BEHIND GORE and CO)
-Innumerable other parasites connected with them.

But what about 'you' ? aah.. they will consign you to some insignificant ideological 'think tank' or some other out of the way place to make you feel 'important' while they wallow in their newfound post capitalist Socialist wealth.

You are useful to them for now... but only for now.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Sunday, 31 October 2010 7:23:15 AM
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The striking feature of the commentators who attack the evidence of the global maldistribution of wealth and poverty is that fundamentally, this situation is acceptable. No matter that billions live on less than $4 per day, and what that means for human potentiality. After all, that's the way it's aways been and that's as good as it gets or, it's their fault anyway. How pathetic that world view is.
Posted by DonaldS, Sunday, 31 October 2010 7:30:52 PM
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Surely there is something wrong with the world when those individuals and corporations which took part in one of the largest global financial scams in history, get off scot free (including ratings agencies who were supposed to be keeping them honest). And not only that, many got public money to protect them and us from the terrible repercussions of their amoral behaviour. But it's the ordinary people who have the least protection from the negative effets of the GFC who end up paying the bill with fewer working rights and government benefits. Where is the justice in that? It sounds like a clear cut case of class warfare to me.

We live in a society - we all have rights and responsibilities towards each other. These need to be in balance if we wish to live in a harmonious society. I'd rather pay taxes and live in a country that provides the basics for everyone, than pay little/no tax and live in a dog-eat-dog world of extreme capitalism.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the super-rich and powerful have more rights and less responsibility than the rest of us. We have a right to call them to account for their actions - but I won't be holding my breath. The system is broken/corrupt and it needs fixing.
Posted by BJelly, Monday, 1 November 2010 1:35:47 PM
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*Surely there is something wrong with the world when those individuals and corporations which took part in one of the largest global financial scams in history, get off scot free (including ratings agencies who were supposed to be keeping them honest)*

That's not quite correct, the way I understand it, Bjelly.

Those people who had shares and investements in investment banks,
like Lehman and others, lost their shirts. They were commonly
employees and traders in those very banks.

The Govt did bankroll other banks who were not part of the scams,
like Wells Fargo and others, to buy the scraps of those investment
banks. The way I understand it, most of that money has now been
repaid, with interest and profit to the US treasury.

AIG, an insurance company was baled out, but once again investors
in AIG lost a fortune. The reason they were baled out, was to avoid
a complete collapse of the global financial system, which would
have wiped out the assets of small people above all.

I fully agree about the ratings agencies, but I gather its not all
over yet. Investigations take years and those people who broke
the law, could still find themselves charged.

The real problem was that the Bush regime did not believe in
regulating anything, so it became a free for all, with virtually
no enforcement of laws which existed.

But then the American people were silly enough to vote for the
Bush regine not once but twice, so its the price which they pay,
for their bad judgement. That is democracy for you, imperfect, but
still all that we really have.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 1 November 2010 2:25:53 PM
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Hi Yabby, You might be right about investment bankers who lost their jobs falling on hard times - but I haven't heard any hard luck stories about them. Have many former millionaires or billionaires become destitute due to the GFC?

However, I have heard a lot about hard working lower and middle class people who have lost jobs, lost their homes, marriages have broken down, and are now living with relatives or in their cars. And they are the ones being asked to accept austerity measures and more "flexible" work conditions in the US and Europe.

If I could see those at the top leading by example and pledging to cut their salaries, bonuses and work conditions I might think we were all in this together - but it's obvious that we are not. Surely nothing exemplifies class warfare better than that.

We are lucky here in Australia that at least ordinary people got to get some of the cash with our stimulus package. We seem to have avoided the worst of the economic "reform" that is happening in other parts of the world.

Regarding GW Bush's 2000 election - it really was a bit dodgey - we'll never know if he really won the election - Gore won the popuar vote, it was the electoral votes that cost him the Presidency. There were so many voting irregularities, especially in Florida - many black voters were not allowed to vote, or had their votes rejected due to "spoilage" - the state Jeb Bush, GW's brother happened to be Governor at the time. Could just be coincidence I suppose.
Posted by BJelly, Monday, 1 November 2010 9:37:29 PM
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Bjelly, alot of very wealthy people certainly became destitute due
to the Madoff saga. There is virtually nothing left of those
50 billion or so.

As to staff and traders of investment banks, I gather that many
had their life savings invested in those banks, but I could not
tell you if they are destitute now.

The GFC really brought alot of things to a head at the same time.
GM and Chrysler had been on the verge of bankrupcy for a while.
Greece had been overborrowing for years, fiddling the books.
A great deal of American people had been overspending for years,
borrowing against houses they thought could never drop in price.
Few put anything away for a rainy day.

The situation with hedge funds and investment banks is really a
straightforward one. They are only as good as the people whom they
employ. Some do have the ability and record to have earned their
employers alot of money over time. Those employees go where they
are paid the most. When Obama tried to limit some of those salaries,
many of those people simply moved offshore, to another company.

As to Bush and his election, right now its interesting. Sarah Palin
is being cheered on as the new saviour, as Obama tries to undo the
wreckage of the last administration. People expected a magic wand
it seems. It ain't that simple. We'll see with the elections
tomorrow, how intelligent the US public really are.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 1 November 2010 11:02:55 PM
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Hi Yabby, the Madoff scandal wasn't part of the GFC - it was a ponzi scheme. The major difference is that he has been jailed for his crimes. The CEOs of these fraudulent investment banks haven't.

If the wealthy happen to fall on hard times, they have access to social networks eg old school tie network to help them find new emploment. This is a great buffer against hardship.

The financial and motor industries were two industries that fought against government regulation in the US. If the US banking industry was more like ours we wouldn't be in this mess. If Ford and GM were more like Honda or Kia- they wouldn't have got into trouble.

Yes, poor people can be greedy too. There are people who can't afford food etc because they are convinced they need to pay for investment properties. I think they are crazy, but their friends/the media/financial/real estate experts all tell them that's their best way to accumulate wealth. There are heaps of trusted "experts" acting as boosters for the economy.

There are rogue traders etc out there too. But surely the system itself was set up in a moral vacuum. Lots of people, including CEOs knew that derivatives etc were a scam. But as long as everyone was getting rich out of it, it was business as usual.

Regarding the US elections - people can only make decisions with the information given to them. Fox News is incredibly powerful, as is the Tea Party. Like Palin they have a folksy appeal, but all of them have one thing in common - they are all backed by wealthy elites who want hollow government.

Individuals are to blame for the mess we are in. But those who wrote the rules at (or tore up the rule book), have a greater responsibility for this mess, if there is any justice, they should share the pain. The elites who wrote the rules aren't being asked to pay more taxes, but the poor and middle classes are being told to expect mass sackings and cuts to vital services. It's obscene!
Posted by BJelly, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 1:55:19 PM
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*the Madoff scandal wasn't part of the GFC*

Bjelly, in fact it was, as the disease was the same. The SEC had
been told many times that Madoff was a fraud, they refused to act.
This was essentially the problem. Bush/Cheney did not believe that
the industry needed regulation, the SEC became a toothless tiger.
Their head of enforcement, was a little old lady who looked more
like a librarian with a bun in her hair. She soon resigned,but it
was all over by then.

In Australia we were fortunate. We'd been shaken up by the HIH
scandal, Costello reacted by appointing a very tough banking
regulator. That paid off for this country.

* Lots of people, including CEOs knew that derivatives etc were a scam*

It ain't that simple. Derivatives are an important part of
finance and trade, used every day by countless industries to hedge
commodities, currencies etc. It was particular derivatives, hedged
through the IAAG office in London by the way, that were the real
problem.

The real problem now is to show where who broke the law. The
lawyers will be cleaning up for years!

Meantime people like Dick Fuld are seemingly more worried about
being shot, then anything else, so I don't think he is sleeping
so well.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/24/news/companies/dick_fuld_exile.fortune/index.htm
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 3:14:09 PM
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Dear Bjelly,
you're wasting your time arguing with Yabby, he's the free-market Pangloss of OLO. And Palin looks like getting up in the US because Obama imposed limited health-care on the masses and failed to bail out the sinking ship Bush staved in..
It's a funny old world!
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 8:28:08 PM
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*Regarding the US elections - people can only make decisions with the information given to them. Fox News is incredibly powerful, as is the Tea Party. Like Palin they have a folksy appeal*

Bjelly, I think that is a bit of a lame excuse for the US situation.

Fact is, Obama is being treated as a scapegoat. Its a human foible
to blame everyone but ourselves, when things go wrong.

Something like 20% of the population still think that he is a
muslim.

Much as I dislike Fox news, the source of news today is immense,
especially with the internet available to justabout everyone.

News Ltd have long learned, that its highly profitable to preach
to the converted. From religious programmes to the page 3 girls
in some of their papers, if it attracts viewers or readers,
News will push those emotional buttons to make a quid.

So I blame people themselves for being far too gullible. They
say that people get the politicians they deserve. If they
now rush to somebody like Palin, well clearly they haven't had
enough pain from 8 years of George and Dick. They will learn the
hard way.

Squeers, unlike yourself, whom I classify as a dreamer :) I am
a realist who takes the trouble to inform himself about topics
of interest, I don't just read the headline news.

Global finance and economics is one of those interests.

If our Govt pulled the police off the roads, would you blame it
all on the criminals, or would that Govt carry part of the
responsibility for what followed?

If I had elected that Govt, clearly I would carry a share of the
blame as well.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:23:41 AM
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Dear Yabby,
I might be a dreamer, but I'm having a nightmare.

I hope you had a listen to Joe Bageant on Big Ideas:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigideas/

Marx never gets a mention (not on his website either), but everything this self-professed redneck says is from Marx.

I gather you're a country bloke too so would like to get your response to Bageant if you have the time...
Posted by Squeers, Thursday, 4 November 2010 5:47:32 AM
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