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The Forum > Article Comments > Water Plan will decimate Murrumbidgee frogs > Comments

Water Plan will decimate Murrumbidgee frogs : Comments

By Jennifer Marohasy and Ron Pike, published 11/10/2010

The new water sharing plan will channel water directly to South Australia but no consideration is given to how this will impact on upstream floodplains.

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Blame Kevin Rudd and Penny Wong it was they who panicked the electorate
with Tipping points , It's too late cried Penny , Kevie wailed at Copenhagen like a Wild West God broker , then the CC Scientists were caught out revealed as frauds and Kev's Cash Cow the carbon tax evaporated and so did poor Kevie .

So what exactly do we have left? In a nut shell Fanatics and four Pawn Brokers , expect anything none of it rational .
Posted by Garum Masala, Monday, 11 October 2010 12:54:40 PM
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Here we go on another of Maharosy’s red herring chases.
Frogs from the top of the Murray, I ask you, is this relevant to the survival of the whole river system?
Obviously being financed again into supporting the big end of town as with all the other articles she writes, this does not go to the heart of the matter, that without some sacrifices being made by the unfortunates that were conned into the lure of a rosy future farming the land by the people that have benefited, there will be no river system one day.
She says *a further two and a half trains of containerized food for markets around the world* leave the towns.
This is vital water that is being shipped overseas, from the driest Continent in the World.
The only benefit is to the big Agricorps that walk away with big profits.
Small farmers do not make huge profits; they are lucky to clear a living.
At last a common sense approach to the river system that will hopeful if not bring it back to it’s original state, at least preserve it in some way because it will die eventually if this is not done.
Posted by sarnian, Monday, 11 October 2010 2:14:13 PM
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Oh no.

Not the frogs. Anything but the frogs.

Oh, the humanity...
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 11 October 2010 4:45:53 PM
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A most extraordinary spin by Jennifer Marohasy and Ron Pike.

They state that Sturt and Oxley described the area as a desolate and un-inhabitable and now they consider it progress,
to treat this area as the Mekong Delta and grow rice there.

The headline Murrumbidgee frogs will of course also benefit from a revived river system in reality. As we all will.
Posted by thinker 2, Monday, 11 October 2010 4:58:55 PM
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This new plan has nothing other than to reinforce the Greens in a position to be able to say NO! No facts no sense just the power is all they care about. Will Bob Brown react to what he said he said? Not likely, he knows the destitute labour government just wants his votes and the votes of his followers.
I think the facts should just keep being repeated, the Greens caused over a million acres of forest earlier this century to be lost to fire. Then the disasterous bushfire deaths and they have got away with it again.
I would use the word shame but Brown and his cohorts do not know the meaning of the word.
Posted by JBowyer, Monday, 11 October 2010 5:24:42 PM
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Piping water THROUGH the Environment - does nothing for it .
In the Mallee in W Victoria they have a scheme to take a tiny amount of water out of the Wimmera Mallee Pipeline [more thieved water]for farmers to use for wildlife, now that the open channel system is gone .
We should insist that all this Environmental water that we are giving to the Government for what appears to be mainly one river bed,has an Biodiversity component allocation, say, 5mgls per 40 ha per annum for those properties that could have a registered Enviro/Habitat Dam - suitable for aquatic life .These farms could be 200 klms from the Murray River.

These properties would need to have a natural water course or swamp on them preferably.
Most farmers I know are not interested in preserving the Environment as "There is no money in it ".
They will spend a lot of money preserving their soils - they are soil conservationists not Frog and Biodiversity Conservationists.
Posted by kartiya jim, Monday, 11 October 2010 8:22:18 PM
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Disappointing to read that some contributors are already dancing on the graves of communities such as Griffith & Leeton. Not spoken about yet is the fact that should these cuts become reality, families buying homes in these communities will have the majority of their equity wiped out and those who own their homes will see a significant drop in their nett worth. Put this on top of the loss of equity for farmers and business owners in these communities and the real cost is yet to be revealed.

Given this scenario, I doubt if the Gillard/Brown Government will be in any position to get the budget back into surplus by 2013. But then again when they understand the real cost they may be quiet happy to see the proposal as over ambitious.
Posted by policybeforepolitics, Monday, 11 October 2010 8:58:17 PM
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Funny how the frogs survived all those droughts before irrigation came along. That little fact sort of destroys your whole argument.

Irrigation is not being banned only reduced. There will still be water in the vast majority of irrigation areas. Any frogs dependent on irrigation will survive fine with a small reduction. Just like they do during droughts. Another gaping hole in your argument.

A joke of an article, riddled with inconsistencies and totally lacking in logic.
With not a single mention of the biggest killer of frogs (and most other small animals) in rural areas......pesticides and other farm chemicals and waste products.
Oh and dont forget salinity. Overwhelmingly caused by irrigation and land clearing. But again not a word from our author.

How could you possibly hope to be taken seriously. The worst misleading, gutter journalism I have seen this year. Well done on plumbing new depths of dishonesty and falsehood in the journalistic profession.

I look forward to the authors future articles about REAL endangered species. But I wont hold my breath!
Posted by mikk, Monday, 11 October 2010 9:11:58 PM
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Many of the species of frog now dependent on these ‘artificial wetlands’ are native and otherwise rare, as many species of Australian frog have been severely impacted by an exotic fungal disease, which has been particularly virulent in some of its most pristine natural habitats.
You can read more about the chytrid fungus here: http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/publications/tap/chytrid.html
Posted by Jennifer, Monday, 11 October 2010 9:24:43 PM
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Damn the frogs. Full speed ahead!! ;)
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 7:08:03 AM
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It's man's inhumanity to frog.
Posted by Peter Hume, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 8:13:05 AM
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The Age poll shows the way.

Poll: Does the Murray-Darling Basin water plan strike the right balance between industry and the environment?
Poll form

1. Please select an answer. Yes, without a healthy river system there would be no industry
2. No, entire country towns could be wiped out
3. View results

Yes, without a healthy river system there would be no industry

74%
No, entire country towns could be wiped out

26%

Total votes: 955.
Posted by sarnian, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 8:41:21 AM
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As the co author of the document I respond to several posters.
Sarnian,
Your personal attack on Jennifer is obnoxious and your claims false.
The original state of the rivers that you long for was one of flood and the wetlands were in abundance, only to be followed by drought when most of the rivers in the system ran dry and the aquatic species were decimated.
Just try reading some history.
While it is true that Aus. is the dryest continent, it is a meaningless claim unless we consider we have a miniscule population compared to other continents.
If we look at the availability of water per head of population we find we have an abundance.
Water is our most abundant renewable resource.
Thinker,
Here is something to think about.
The rice grown in the Riverina has all been bred locally to suit an ideal climate for the japonica types grown there.
The growers are the most efficient in the world and rice is a very efficient plant at turning water into cheap food.
kartiya jim,
Contrary to your claims farmers have for generations recognised the value of the wider environment and have steadfastly improved it ever since the second world war. (prior to that our land and environment were going backwards.)
The Authors of the MDBA report and obviously some posters here seem to have the idea the "The Environment" is some Garden of Eden Utopia that exists somewhere down the Murray where uniquely all aquatic native species breed and thrive in a watery heaven.
Truth is the environment obviously covers the entire region and it is a fact that not only is there more wetlad now than before the arrival of Europeans, but that it is more permanent and productive.
The water drought is thankfully for the time being over.
Sadly the much more damaging drought of truth is still with us.
Pikey.
Posted by Pikey, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 1:30:15 PM
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Doesn't 'decimate' mean kill one in ten?
Posted by Cheryl, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 4:07:49 PM
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Pikey,
I must admit that I do not usually attack the person rather than the article but I have read some of her blogs over the years and it is obvious that she is either in a financial arrangement with “big business” or is not too bright and is a follower of the denialist group.
You say *The original state of the rivers that you long for was one of flood and the wetlands were in abundance, only to be followed by drought when most of the rivers in the system ran dry and the aquatic species were decimated.
Just try reading some history.*
Well of course that is correct but when the rivers did run in flood, it was allowed to overflow and replenish the wetlands, so they could survive for another spell. They did not have the water diverted into enormous paddocks, where a huge amount evaporated and did not replenish the river all the way to the mouth.
*While it is true that Aus. is the driest continent, it is a meaningless claim unless we consider we have a miniscule population compared to other continents.*
The population is so miniscule that Desal plants are having to be built in most of the major cities and some of the river towns were on the brink of going without water quite recently and could have had to close down because of that.
Posted by sarnian, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 4:36:51 PM
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Part 2
*The rice grown in the Riverina has all been bred locally to suit an ideal climate for the japonica types grown there. The growers are the most efficient in the world and rice is a very efficient plant at turning water into cheap food. kartiya jim,*

I repeat what I said in the earlier post, most of this is sent overseas and is not used to feed Australians. It is a purely for making a profit (mostly by agribusiness) and is in effect exporting water. Surely the health of the river system is more important than profit for big companies?
*The Authors of the MDBA report and obviously some posters here seem to have the idea the "The Environment" is some Garden of Eden Utopia that exists somewhere down the Murray where uniquely all aquatic native species breed and thrive in a watery heaven.*

Possible some do think like that but I am sure that most would be just content to see the whole system in equilibrium and not detraining towards the death of the system.

*Truth is the environment obviously covers the entire region and it is a fact that not only is there more wetlad now than before the arrival of Europeans, but that it is more permanent and productive.*

How can there be “more permanent and productive wetlands” when the whole system has been in crisis for quite a few years, including the river mouth?
Posted by sarnian, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 4:38:41 PM
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Indeed it does Cheryl.

It just has been misappropriated (by those with even less latin than me, and that's saying something) as a surrogate for destroy or annihilate.

I've even heard of constructs such as 'one fifth decimate' Que? That'd be: 'select by lottery one in fifty to be put to death'?

And don't get me started on the misuse of 'carnage' to describe a scene devoid of shattered flesh...!
Posted by hugoagogo, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 6:07:35 PM
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sarnian, i didn't mention Rice - I believe that was pikey .
While there is water about here in Northern Victoria, the Irrigation area has probably 1000's of kilometres of drains made 20 years ago that snake through the country from swamp to swamp to take saline water up to the Murray and eventually out to sea [that was the plan].
Very little of the main irrigation creeks and channels water is allocated and dedicated to the Environment ,although due to the good season ,more is available this summer.
I was told by Goulburn Murray Water that Environmental Water wasn't in calculations for the frogs or any other aquatic life on farm land - in fact because of sprays and pollution the water was not fit for drinking.
I have never seen my 2ha swamp flooded in over 20 years ,after our last big rain the water stayed contained by the salt drain banks and flowed north.
I am also telling my house dam frogs to keep their heads down because of the imminent locust spraying .
Farmers all over the Murray Catchment need a dedicated Biodiversity Allocation urgently from the Buyback and Water Cuts if the MDBC is serious about the Environment and Biodiversity ,otherwise they are having another lend of us, and simply concentrating water in the Murray for future Population Growth north of the GD Range and in South Australia.
Posted by kartiya jim, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 6:40:52 PM
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Has the mouth of the murray been explored yet.
Does their need to be an outflow, or is the passage for pleasure craft.
What is the ecenomic benefits of keeping the mouth open.
In the days before weirs, the murray ran when there was water only, so what has changed to make keeping the mouth open a priority.
Maybe the outflow of the murray needs looking into, it may be a cheaper option.
Posted by 579, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 6:44:12 PM
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WELL SARNIAN, what a store of misinformation and spite you are.
Your first two comments in relation to JM are obviously false and more importantly reflect very badly on you.
Your claim that following floods the wetlands replenished until the next flood can only be based on ignorance.
That is not what did and still does not happen.
The only dam on the Murrumbidgee River is Burrunjuck (1.026M megs.)it was built 90 years ago.
Guess what?
In the 80 years following its building there have been nearly twice as many floods as the 80 years prior to its building.
sarnian what you apparently do not realise is that the volume of water that flows down all of the valleys in flood time is many, many times the capacity of any dam in the system.
For your information, with the exception of the lower Lachlan for a very short period NONE of the towns or cities were ever under threat of water shortage.
There was at all times more than 3 years water to supply the first three priorities for water in the lower basin.
I have no idea what your perception of "equilibrium" might be.
The system is not in crisis as you claim.
It is healthy (except for Eropean Carp)and if you doubt that I suggest you join me for a good look and see.
k-jim,
Time to get out and see the real world and stop being such a Hanrahan."
Things are not as bad as you imagine.
All the best.
Pikey
Posted by Pikey, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 8:33:29 PM
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Hey Pikey,
Your "Real World" tells me that lately we lead the world with Gold Medal Status ,in Species Extinction .
I suggest you catch up in the Australian Museum where you, along with the School Environment Class will see some of what we have allready lost, with your "she'll be right mate "! attitude .
That's my real World .
Posted by kartiya jim, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 10:53:00 PM
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Beatles and bugs are everywhere, Get rid of the barrages at the mouth of the river,and allow the river to act as it was meant to. Then there will be no need for starving the grapes from water.
Why allow fresh water flow into the sea without restriction. The continual dredging of the murray mouth, is not natural, it opened and closed according to conditions.
Allow the river to flow its normal path, as nature provided.
You can have as many weirs as you like it wont stop the river running.
The Coorongs and Alexandrina were meant to be tidal, and thats the way it should be.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 14 October 2010 6:07:28 AM
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