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The Forum > Article Comments > Don’t wait until the Queen dies to become a republic > Comments

Don’t wait until the Queen dies to become a republic : Comments

By Mike Keating and David Donovan, published 5/10/2010

Republicans are used to monarchists manufacturing myths to try to scare people away from a republic.

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A very good point from Peter Hume, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 10:45:59 AM: If the 1999 referendum had been carried, we would have cut our ties to the British Crown, but our Constitution would still have been contained in an Act of the UK Parliament. Not illegal, but a little bizarre. But Peter is far too pessimistic about fixing this problem. "Repatriating" our Constitution would be quite simple: it would just require a democratic vote by the people, double majority under section 128 and all that, to insert an Introduction declaring the sovereignty of the Australian people and stating that we now take control of our own Constitution as a standalone document. If you want to call this a Declaration of Independence, that's fine, but it's not necessary.

As for Hasbeen, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 11:47:58 AM, any talk of "20 years of High Court challenges" is just ridiculous. Unlike many other constitutions, with ours the people have the final say, under section 128. A democratically ratified constitutional amendment cannot be unconstitutional, by definition. There is simply no room for the High Court to overrule the manifest will of the people, and anybody who's worried about judges "rewriting the law" should be a staunch constitutional republican. We have the power - let's use it.
Posted by RossG, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 2:18:12 PM
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Show me a model and I will give a thumbs up or down.
GET such a good model into the debate and I will support the republic.

I don't think we really have much to talk about for the Republic as it stands now;
It insists on petty symbolism and is surprised when nobody cares because there is something more important to focus on (which is practically every issue besides).

Our system of government (the Westminster System) replies on petty, useless figureheads to hold the balance of power, and partly out of a refusal by that system to actually be more democratic.

As such, we have a push to replace a useless figurehead role in a rather flimsy system with another person (to ensure no collapse) by the majority of Republicans, with only a few Republic enthusiasts (Ted Mack again) actually trying to conceive a better system of government- only achieving to terrify the remaining republicans and monarchists alike because beyond cosmetics, they are simply afraid of change.

It's sad, because a Republic DOES have great power to drastically improve our country and constitution- if only anyone bearing the main torch could be bothered.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 5:57:19 PM
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Australia as a republic? Oh no! Are we to be wrenched away from the British monarchy? God forbid! We are unintelligent, weak and have no pride as Australians, how on earth do these republican enthusiast except us to stand free on our own feet? Pride is an undesirable attribute, any way. Pride is what the Americans, French, Germans, Russians, Indians, Chinese, etal value. The mess these people are in!!

We are loyal; we still cling to our distant past and are hard wired as subordinates to this German blood-line called the Windsors. We can’t afford to break away from the memory of colonialism. As a bogan, I have xenophobic fears as well; look at the hordes of boat-people invading our shores, the terrorist lurking in our midst, the Muslims waiting to ambush Christianity, the possibility of ‘land-claims’ by the natives of this land, and worst of all, we are surrounded by Asia. At least the Queen can wave her wand and keep these pests away from our shores. This thought is so comforting and reassuring. Why in heaven’s name do we need to become a republic?

We know that Britain doesn’t want us, but we are so desperately needy of the British Queen, that British sentiments shouldn’t matter. It feels good to be subservient, to drool over the British monarchy and its off-springs. The cheek and audacity of some (Paul Keating, Peter Costello, Mal Turnbull and the authors of this article) to re-ignite the republican debate again, when Johnny Howard so cunningly and craftily killed it (republicanism) through a convoluted and deceptive referendum. This is yet another example that illustrates how unintelligent, weak, subservient and fearful we are and how easily we are fooled into believing that ‘change is an evil pursuit’. Australia as a republic? No way!! We are unworthy of this thought for we are a people who are unable to ‘move forward’ from our past. Long live this British penal colony!!
Posted by Jolly, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 9:19:40 PM
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Sadly Jolly the likes of Turnbull and Keating are just as much a reason we are not a republic- their sheer pettiness and domineering refused to acknowledge some vastly superior models and attitudes towards a republic than their own models (which would retain Australian politics as the low-accountability, stratified system we currently have).

Again, all in all Australians concerned of this issue are divided along these lines (both of which overlap Republican and Monarchist).

1- people that don't like change, and thus don't want a Republic- or otherwise, a minimalist model- most of these people are ultimately monarchists, and would not tolerate any Republic model that is actually substantial.

2- People that would only support a Republic if there was a lot of significant, and more importantly practical and beneficial change. A symbolic, minimalist republic will simply not do. Most likely a majority.

As a result, this issue will never get off the ground until people start taking the implications behind it more seriously.

The minimalists will sabotage any attempt to make a better republic than their own, and nobody else will bother changing the constitution just to nurture in a symbolic camel.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 9:49:19 PM
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Hazza, (not my King) your concern about ‘models’ is exactly what Howard and Minchin did at the last referendum, ie. confuse bogans (like me) with highly technical and contesting models of republic and thus it was easy to say “No mate, I want no change”. The referendum should be about YES or NO for a republic, period! Consensus of an Australian Republic first, models later. Putting the cart before the horse scares the s... out of simpletons (like me). A consensus re. the appropriate model may take time, but that is to be expected, anyway, since comparisons (models) also entail a high degree of subjectivity and personal preferences reflecting values and beliefs.

And why can’t Keating have an opinion re. the type of model he deemed desirable? He was the first (and probably only) politician to have the guts and vision to articulate the speech (‘The Australian Republic’- June 7, 1995) that started the republican debate in Australia. Turnbull, what a man! We, in Australia, want leaders to be meek, humble, soft, and kiss babies!! ‘Confidence’ is often mistaken for “arrogance” and ‘conviction’ for “domineering”. Keating and Turnbull have the chutzpah that is so lacking in our current leadership, the latter just self-seeking, polls driven wimps! Fit to lead a colony (not a nation).

But Hazza, lets continue to enjoy our obsession with the monarchy. Imagine the laughs we would otherwise miss out; Charles (our future King) wanting to be a “tampon”, Prince Phillip calling the Chinese “slit-eyed”, Andrew …Fergi … ssshhh ….. enough, lest we are seen as being ‘disrespectful’. We must remind ourselves that, as Aussies, we need to be humble, meek and self-doubting. Our destiny simply cannot be in our hands, to assume otherwise is sheer arrogance. Reason enough to keep the monarchy. Hail monarchy!
Posted by Jolly, Wednesday, 6 October 2010 12:00:10 AM
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Gee, you can pick them Jolly, can't you?

To start with I have never experienced this desire you seem to have, to be led by anyone. I'm quite capable of making my own decisions, thank you.

Then your chosen "leaders", wow.

You start with Keating. That bloke never did anything for any ordinary Ozzie, except lead them up a dark alley, the better to rip their hard earned off them. He's the one, who after years of pulling on the leavers gave us the recession we could have done without.

Then the bludger didn't even apologize. Not what you could expect of your great leader

Then Turnbull. I'm not sure about him. Is he a dumb fool, who has fallen for the global warming con? Perhaps he is a reasonably smart conman, who is only using the con to try to achieve something for a chosen few.

Whatever it is, he is certainly lacking any attributes you would look for, if you were someone who required a leader.

At Least with the silly redhead there is a reasonable chance she will run scared of the opinion polls, & won't pass too many fool laws, unless a large chunk of the population want them. That is a bit of a worry though, when we have people dumb enough to think Keating was a good leader
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 6 October 2010 1:26:32 AM
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