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The Forum > Article Comments > The post-carbon economy: coming ready or not > Comments

The post-carbon economy: coming ready or not : Comments

By Syd Hickman, published 28/9/2010

How do you deal with unstoppable global warming without reliable sources of energy?

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I wonder how many non-scientists who believe everything scientists say are confusing carbon dioxide with carbon dioxide. Given the appalling level of education in Australia, and the Australian heads up bums attitude to everything, this question might not be a silly as it first appears to some.
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 2:24:04 PM
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OHH_DEAR..[here we-go/again]
this time..no pretty..graphs..with decieving/predictions

noting the..world/has-just/passed..
the coldest-year..in decades...its little-wonder
this time..its a fact-free/zone

no mention of/the..ozone/hole..neither
[seems/that...prediction..at-least..was briefly-true]

but lets look/at the..ba-sick/error..

first line's/quote..<<..Its..time/to stop..talking>>
and start/doing..as big-business/decrees

stop/talking..<<about.."slowing"..climate-change>>.lol.

<<The real/issues..the government should/be..addressing are the inevitable..end/of..oil>>.and were..not even at..peak-oil..yet..lol

<<and..unstoppable/global..warming>>..ok..two/points

if..its REALLY..un-stop/able...then why..the big-new tax?

also..you began..with..the buzz[clim-ate-change]..then ended with the definitive[disproven]..global-warming..[buzz-words]

but lets get into...cli-MATE/change
seems the lefties...all of a sudden...are in line..with big-business

this wouldnt happen..to/be because-of..the funding injections..as much as big-business[bankers-debt]..needs the cash-flow..

from either..a big-new/tax..or from govt/largess..[gift]

ya/see..we need industry..to slow-down

[and it is doing that..due to the excess/of..the elites]
even unlimeted private-credit/cards..credit..isnt boosting the/con-sumer=index

yet industry..needs money..
so it sells..its lies
[via the media...and govt..who are/there..to serve..,business as/usual]

<<The CEO/of BHP..recently called/for..a carbon tax,>>so he/will be..represented..'in the room'..making/sure..thats..not a new-tax..for big-business...

[besides the minning tax..put a scare..into big..business..[as usual]..and without..the big/new-mining-tax...govt wont/be..able-to give..big-business..the business..it needs..to pay/back..bankers-greed

[or rather..the/funding..from those lovely...new green-credits..
big-business..NEEDS..to do further..'business'..
by re-BUILDING..what they/just built...wrong..[it seems]

[destroying.the planet..in the process..
to build it..ALL AGAIN...
this time..in/shades..of/green]

we seen..allready..how it/all works..in/spain..
now..one-of the..'p.i.g.s'..gone bust..
chasing...all them..green-jobs..
now...left/with..big..[public]..debt

look/at their unemployment-rate...
now ..the green-job's..is done

govt needs/realise..the tax-payers are at wits-end

johnny/how-hard..did his debt-transpher..to the allready indebited..TOO-well..

REALISE..WE PUT/IT-ALL..ON CREDIT-cards..!

then we bailed-out..the bankers..
[who also need this new..green-greed..[creed]..cash-flow..
because the assets..they lent/big-on...are over-valued

yes business..NEEEDS this new.tax..on us
not them..so my cure..is put the tax on..them...[their assets]

if carbon..isnt taxed..on imports..tax the new/imports

tax..the NEW-cars..tax..the new-vidios..big-screens

tax the/dead...[bring back..death/duties]
the only..duty..some give/have

see how ire-lands bailouts...bailed..out..the bankers
who lent..big-debt..
to less/than..100 developers..!

its time..those who gain..from development..
paid..their way
how many/of..these investements...trickle-down...not many..

only the/cost...trickles-up..
while/service..trickles-down

enough is enough
tax..the rich
tax transactions
tax inports..tax big-users..

but leave the/rest..of us..alone
govt..for/the PEOPLE...what/a joke

more like..tax/benifits..to the master
running the..2 party..[ok..3..party-scam]

lets look/at..the subsidies/tax-breaks/egsemptions..to big-business

they get govt-service
and increasing costs..for their..ser-vices..
and/gives..the shaft-to..the mug..tax-payers/con-summers

paying for..all/of-it
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 2:35:53 PM
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*As for Kloppers his speech confirms my opinion - the man is a well-paid nut.*

You underestimate Mr Kloppers at your peril, Curmudgeon. The man
can be an extremely clever strategist. He almost single handedly
changed the way that global iron ore is priced, even if it took
him 5 years or so.

Kloppers realises that some sort of carbon tax is inevitable.
This way he will be part of the debate for how much it will be
and how it is structured.

As with the mining tax saga, things were far worse and unrealistic,
when he and other large miners were totally left out. Once they
were included, they could come to an agreement that they could
live with. That is hardly stupid thinking.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 2:40:40 PM
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Carbon tax, at x dollars per tonne. Electricity company pays y dollars in carbon tax relative to amount of coal they burn. My electricity bill arrives and I see carbon tax is added and costs me z dollars. Now, x and y dollars will both have some kind of administrative fee factored in, so my z dollars will be a bit more than the original x and y dollars. If I waste heaps of electricity and leave floodlights on all night, there is a motivation to change my ways. If I dont waste electricity, as most people dont, it is simply a price hike from my perspective. In Queensland, we already pay an ambulance levy on our power bill.

This has nothing to do with the environment, as a regulatory approach is used for environmental issues. It will raise a lot of money though.
Posted by PatTheBogan, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 3:52:57 PM
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Curmudgeon you along with those who deny that there is a problem with running out of resources like Oil and Gas would do well to take a refresher course in exponential growth.
I have no idea when we will run out of these various scarce resources - but I believe I am right to be concerned that we appear to have locked ourselves into an industrial/economic paradigm based on finite resources - far better to switch to renewable energy resources well before they run out.
As far as climate change is concerned it may seem paradoxical that we can both run out of the materials that produce the CO2 and be worried about climate change. Several issues need to be taken into account. Firstly we rely heavily on energy to mitigate the impact of climate change. Secondly recent reports show that the Siberian Tundra is defrosting - that process will release methane which could be entering the atmosphere just when we have run out of stuff to burn hence we would be in a situation where we do not have the energy sources to protect ourselves against climate change just when it is beginning to accelerate.
Finally with regard to a carbon tax - our parliament is only tackling half of the proposed solution. the full proposal is for a carbon tax and dividend.
Posted by BAYGON, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 5:27:21 PM
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Just after posting my last comment I was sent this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&p=6A1FD147A45EF50D&index=1
Those of you who see the concern about peak oil and peak coal are silly have a look at this lecture - you will find that the idea of exponential growth is well explained.
Posted by BAYGON, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 5:30:38 PM
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