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The Forum > Article Comments > Abbott uses speaker in quest for early election > Comments

Abbott uses speaker in quest for early election : Comments

By Bruce Hawker, published 28/9/2010

Abbott's predicament over pairing the speaker opens the way to his rivals

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Dear Mr. Kawker,

Would your friends in the Labor Party have done any different if the shoe was on the other foot?

You are saying, in effect, that because the independents sided with Labor that Mr. Abbott got a fit of pique and decided on a little pay back in the form of non-pairing for the speaker.

Would your side have done different? It's a safe bet not.

I have reservations about your thesis as blind Freddie and his dog could see that Mr. Windsor - a disaffected National, and Mr. Oakeshott, more truly a Labor person than a conservative, were just looking to find some way to convince their electorates of why they were going to opt for Labor. Mr. Abbott is not naive and would have been aware of this.

Besides, the PM said to the electorate just before the poll that there would be no carbon tax. After being appointed as PM she then says there will be a carbon tax and that things are different now.

Why? because she has such a slender majority? Because an independent could breach the walls of that margin and Mr. Windsor on carbon is looking shaky at the moment?

Is it less bad for the PM to break her word to about 6 million Australian voters and then try to justify this with the lame-brained excuse that things are different now?

From where I sit, the PM's offence is a hanging one - much more so than Mr. Abbott's.

If the sequence of events are as you have outlined, then I also think the Liberal leader has done the wrong thing. But, it is not a hanging offence as is the deliberate deception practiced against the electorate by the PM.

Besides, even though they should not have signed a document, the opinion of several constitutional experts as published in newspapers has it that the decision Mr. Abbott took with regard to pairing was the correct one.
Posted by Ibbit, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 11:43:06 AM
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Ibbit
It's not certain, from your comment, that you have a good sense of balance where Mr Abbott is concerned. A couple of questions for you, remembering that we now have a legitimate, democratically elected government, one that commands the majority of votes in the House which is the only test of legitimacy in Australia. Q1: If an action open to an Opposition leader could promote his personal political ambition but at the cost of impeding the governance of the nation, should he place his personal interests above those of his nation or the other way around? Q2: Is the Opposition leader's refusal to honour a signed agreement calculated by him more to enhance government efficiency or advance his personal ambition? Q3: Given that in cases of extreme incompetence or maladministration, it is proper for an Opposition to bring down a Government if the opportunity arises, what is the extreme incompetence or malfeasance that the Government has demonstrated since it was commissioned that justifies Mr Abbott's dishonouring of a signed agreement in an attempt to bring it down? Q4: Do you think the Australian people think more or less of Mr Abbott as a result of his recent behaviour?
Posted by GlenC, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 12:32:12 PM
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The "pairing" arrangement was put in place primarily by Rob Oakeshott. The main objective of which would be to strip the opposition of its power to block legislation it found objectionable, and exercise its powers given to it by the electorate.

Given the readiness of Labor to sign up, and the reluctance of the coalition, (who eventually signed under more than a little duress) I have a suspicion that this was done with the main purpose of cementing the influence of the independents, and that RO and TW knew ahead of time which way they would vote.

Given that to abide by the agreement would strip the opposition of most of its influence, it is not surprising that they ditched it.

Nor is it surprising that given the influence of the greens, Julia Gillard has ditched most of her election promises.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 1:57:16 PM
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It's becoming more apparent the fool defacto labor members for Lynne and New England never negotiated with the liberals in good faith.

Can you tell me how a man who has made millions out of coal mining now sits on a committeee overseeing the implementation of lying Gillard's Carbon Tax? The same fool who now claims to be concerned about the Carbon Tax increasing the cost of food ... doh! Wouldn't he just vote against it if he's fair dinfim?

The other fool has chased every opportunity to increase his own income. First seeking ministerial positions (Twice) and then the Speakers position.

I don't blame Abbott for dumping any parts of any agreement made with these two hypocritical fools. I can't see how either fool could sincerely back Labor when they had only 15% and 17% of their electorates vote for Gillard's lies.

Tell me about the busiuness plan for NBN Bruce ... and would you care to voice an opinion on NBN now, given Forbes assessments ... especially as your mates jnumped in over Kloppers opinions on carbon taxes. (Which when read in full include suggestions that BHP be rebated it's total carbon taxes).

What are you blokes going to do when it becomes obvious as this parliamentary term wears on, that Gillard's uselessness shows and she becomes less popular than Rudd ever was, and completely unelectable?

Am I biased ... well yes I am but unlike you I don't run around voicing opinion pretending to be impartial and everbody else always wrong.

Let me give you some advise ... ask your opinion focus groups whether people feel Gillard's elevation to PM by Windsor and Oakshott is just plain wrong.

You'll be in for a huge surprise. Come next election she'll be biffed out and Labor will be in the wilderness for generations and that will be right.

Abbott will get his second 'first termer' ... either by the faceless ones or the electorate.

Sleep tight Bruce and mind the bed bugs don't bite as all those election lies are starting to come back at Gillard and Rudd's labor..
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 2:19:36 PM
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Does this joker really expect the Oppostion to help out a Government that wasn't elected but inflicted on us by an embittered ex-National and a nobody who giggles like a girl.

If Abbott didn't make the most of the current ludicrous situation in Parliament, he wouldn't be worthy of being Opposition Leader. It is quite clear that the Australian electorate said a 'pox on both your houses' in the way they voted.

The only way to clear up the mess is for all politicians - preferably more than the current crop - to front up again and show that they are capable of forming a government that doesn't have just the temporary, undeserved and undemocratic hold on it that the Gillard crew has now. It is inevitable that Gillard will fall. The sooner the better for the good of Australia.
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 2:33:48 PM
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Is my perception awry or do posts that descend to near-hysterical, personal insults come mainly from those putting extreme right wing and fundamentalist religious views?
Posted by GlenC, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 3:41:51 PM
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Hey, this is a bit negative Brucie? You're back at your old game of kicking the Libs to divert attention from your laughable failure as a Government. Your good at buying people off, but not good enough.
Posted by Atman, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 6:22:33 PM
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Atman
Would that laughable failure as a government be the one that made Australia the envy of the developed world for the way it negotiated the GFC? And in "Your good at buying people off…", you might find that it's "you're" not "your".
Posted by GlenC, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 6:56:20 PM
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Dear Glen,

No, you're spot on. They're playing "follow
the Leader!" But some one should tell them
that their Leader actually lost the election - and
that he should now do what he agreed to do when he
signed the agreement that is suddenly found to be
"unconstitutional," by their party - contrary to what
other legal advisors have stated.

Everyone else is willing to work together for the good
of the nation, everyone except the Opposition who are
determined to undermine everything no matter what.

You can hold the Government to account, but the role of
the Opposition should be to do it constructively.

We can only hope that things will improve as policies
are put forward which the Opposition can approve.
Although I wouldn't hold my breath. That is unless
the current Party Leader is replaced by a true Liberal
(as Malcolm Fraser stated), Malcolm Turnbull.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 10:19:28 PM
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[Deleted for toilet language.]
Posted by Amicus, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 10:20:32 PM
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"Turnbull - or someone else untainted by the negative strategy Abbott is running - is well positioned to make a run at the opposition leadership some time in the 12 months leading up to the next election".
If what you say comes to be, particularly with regard to Turnbull, then Labour can kiss goodbye for a very long time indeed at the next election (whenever that happens). Abbott is holding back the victory for the Libs. If Turnbull stood instead of Abbott at the last election then be sure, Bruce, that we would not be in this sad state.
Lot of my friends and I cannot imagine Arbib, Shorten, Gillard and their friend 'treachery' lead this country anywhere.
Posted by Jolly, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 10:48:42 PM
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The interesting thing about all of Abbott's so-called "strategies" is that what he is really doing is setting precedents for future Oppositions.

One day the shoe may be on the other foot and the Libs will have nobody to blame but themselves when they come up against a deliberately obstructionist opposition bent only on forcing a change of government at all costs.

Living "by the sword" has the inevitable consequences.

If he's not careful he will alienate himself within his own party supporters if public opinion swings away from them.
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 10:54:10 PM
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Dear Amicus,

Must you use toilet language pitted at the author?
It shows a limited vocabulary to say the least.

And be fair. Take a closer look at Tony Abbott's
behaviour. He promised the country a "kinder and
gentler" government but the way in which he's
currently behaving undermines him and makes
people feel that he really should curtail his
personality. He's acting undisciplined, and tends
to speak before he thinks.

He has to have a willingness to give things a go,
even if it means risking failure. When an agreement
has been signed, you don't renege on it if you're an
honorable man. You should move heaven and earth to
ensure that the agreement is honoured.

There were many who doubted the ability of David
Cameron the British Prime Minister. However a hung
parliament for David Cameron has turned out to be
an opportunity to remake British Government.
Tony Abbott could silence his doubters if his behaviour
was more exemplary. He could call for a truce and really
try to give things a go. That way he'd achieve much
more than allienating everyone which is what he's currently
doing.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 11:02:16 PM
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The last thing Tony Abbott should do is aid & abet Gillard in the policy directions she is now pursuing.

His duty now is to do anything he can, & use any weapon at his disposal to try to limit the damage Gillard is going to do to Oz & the Oz people.

It is now obvious she will do anything necessary for her to buy the support to stay in power. Weather a policy is good or bad is no longer of any interest to her.

Any suggestion that he should do otherwise can only come from labor supporters worried that she will make some fool blunder & be chucked out. Those who can see what she really is con only live in hope.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 11:49:35 PM
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[Deleted for toilet language.]
Posted by Amicus, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 7:40:42 AM
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Is it not possible to debate without using toilet language?

The only precedent available is the hung parliament in the 1940s when the Labor opposition refused to pair Menzies even when he attended the War cabinet.

Julia Gillard says that this is a time for consensus, and then sets up a committee on climate change that has pre conditions for participating. Julia Gillard's "consensus" is double speak for falling in behind Labor.

True consensus requires consultation without pre conditions prior to announcements of policy, and the acceptance that the result may not be what was originally intended.

One of Rudd's major weaknesses was the springing of policies on the parliament and the public, and then refusing to yield. Julia can make serious inroads if she is genuine about consensus, the climate committee is not a good start.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 8:23:14 AM
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Dear Amicus,

You can call me whatever you like.
I would be pleased if that would change
Tony Abbott's behaviour.
If my asking for him to curtail his
personality and stop undermining himself
such as the (May) 7.30 Report interview in
which he questioned his own ability to be
truthful - and if you consider all this as
spin - well that's your choice.

I remember a time when the Liberal Party
actually stood for something. Today, there's
a certain nastiness that has crept in, and
bully tactics seem to be the way to go.
Where signed agreements are not honored,
where there's stubborness and petulance instead
of logic and rationality. Where its not a
matter of holding the government to account,
it's simply a matter of wreching things.
I'm convinced that Tony Abbott is an unsuitable
leader and should be replaced by Malcolm Turnbull.
And, I bet that I'm not the only one in this
country who thinks so.

As for being a part of any "minion," (I'll have to
look that word up), I'm from
a Liberal voting family, but my politics varies
(although I've never voted for the Greens). I prefer to
look at policies and what's good for my family and the
country. But I guess most voters do that unless they're
party supporters no matter what. Which I'm not.

Anyway, I can tell that you feel strongly about things.
Passion is good, but it's even better when mixed with
logic and rationality and a willingness to give things
instead of speaking before you think, saying things
you'll regret, being stubborn and resisting compromise.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 11:18:19 AM
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cont'd...

My apologies I meant to say

"...and a willingness to give things a go..."
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 11:22:59 AM
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Tony 'Rabbit' Abbott will go down in history as the Coalition's worst Leader of the Opposition. He didn't topple Turnbull by one vote for no reason.

Even his own party recognized his erratic nature, his lack of leadership, his inability to negotiate, his dismal amount of integrity, his towering contradictions, his total lack of statesmanship, his glaring inconsistency, his infinite ego, etc.

The Melbourne Comedy Festival needs Tony's talents (perhaps to sweep the stage!).

http://www.dangerouscreation.com
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 8:32:05 PM
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David G

Tony Abbott is wiping the floor, but is doing it with Julia Gillard.

Kevin Rudd had a run as the biggest joke, but lost out because of his deadly dullness.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 29 September 2010 9:47:27 PM
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Abbott uses speaker in quest for early election

Sounds like the best solution to me.

After all, three years of this crap will cost us millions and achieve nothing.

I say let the people decide, after all, we now all know where the independents really stand.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 30 September 2010 6:42:38 AM
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Dear rehctub,

The people have decided - Labor won.
Get over it!
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 30 September 2010 11:01:14 AM
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GlenC, Our PM is appointed, not one elected in her own right.
Doesn't make the government illigetimate, but makes a difference to how history will be written.

Q!. How do you decide what is personal interest as opposed to national interest when it comes to a politician?
That question applies equally to the PM who moved heaven and earth to become Australia's first female PM.

Q2.Pertains equally to the PM. Does her promise of no carbon tax before the election and embrace of one after not provoke the same question?

Q3. I think you draw a long bow suggesting the abandonment of the speakers pairing agreement was an attempt to bring down the government. Even though I disaprove of the Opposition's tactic in this regard, it was looking to preserve its numbers and had a valid constitutional reason for its action.

The Oppositions job is to oppose, not co-govern.

Q4. Comments on a myriad of web sites suggest Mr. Abbott will be comfortably elected at the next election.

To cite you opening comment "It's not certain, from your comment, that you have a good sense of balance where the government is concerned."

Well, it comes down to a matter of philosophy and always will do for the discerning voter.

Comment 2 puts aside any pretence of impartiality and is honest.

Comment 3. Why is it such an impossibility for those on the left to acknowledge that the economy inherited was in good condition and that this was a big component in your so-called success with the GFC? Commentators both inside and outside Australia acknowledge the above point and Glen Stevens has been at pains to point out that the GFC was a largely northern hemisphere event.

Labor might believe its little GFC deceit, but few outside Labor supporters believe it.

Finally, it'd pretty safe to say that broken promises, self-serving independents and a noticable lack of strategy so far by this government suggest it will also be incompetent. All good reasons for expecting the Coalition will be the government come the next election.
Posted by Ibbit, Thursday, 30 September 2010 3:43:41 PM
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Dear Mr Ibbit,

Fair judgement.

The people gave John Howard four three year terms
to prove that he can govern don't you think that
it's only fair to give the present elected government
a good Australian fair-go - instead of tearing in
the good Liberal way and try to undermine any good intentions.

I sometimes feel that some people in this country
don't believe in a fair-go. The best they seem capable
of doing is condemnation and labelling.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the whole world
had a major financial catastrope, and yes, due to previous
Labor and Liberal managements the country was in better
stance - but let's also not forget that it was Thanks
to Labor's quick action that major disaster was averted.
Which by the way the Libs tried to scuttle - and we would
have gone down the gurgler.

So be fair Sir, and let this current government serve its
full term, and the voters can decide in three years.

Who knows, it might be a Coalition of Greens and Independents -
with no major Party winning favor.

By the way, you sling off at the Independents - even though
they made it quite clear why they chose to support Labor.
Obviously, the Libs did not have any realistic propositions
to attract them - such as Broadband, stability, parliamentary
reform, education and
health in rural areas, and so on. These things were important to
the Independents - and of course the $11 billion blow out
in the Liberal budget - didn't sit to well either.

Even Bob Katter wanted to support Labor but was discouraged by
the personal threats he received.

And, just for your information, when talking about broken
promises - Tony Abbott has a whole litany of broken promises
dating back to the Howard years. He's even admitted on
National television to Kerry O'Brien that he can't be
trusted to tell the truth. (May - 7.30 Report Interview).
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 30 September 2010 7:12:38 PM
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foxy, I don't think for one minute that labor wan, rather, they were handed a 'hollow victory' by the skin of their teeth.

Now, having been handed this position, it is now up to them to prove they are capable of running the country.

As I have stated before, we, the people can't loose, as they will either do a great job, or be ruined for many years to come.

>>and due to previous laborand Liberal managements the country was in better stance.

Tell me you're kidding!

Labor left a huge whole in our bank account the last time they were in and, in less than three years they even managed to break their own pathetic record.

Boy you are so one eyed.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 30 September 2010 7:38:11 PM
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Dear rehctub,

I'm sorry that you think I'm one-eyed.
Perhaps you should re-read my posts and
compare them with your own.

And, here I was thinking that I was merely
pointing out the obvious.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 October 2010 7:32:47 PM
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Dear Foxy
Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall labors last stint being known for record unemployment, record high interest rates, record debt and an IR system that almost crippled small business.

Please explain to me just how any of this helped us get through the GFC? After all, you did say both labor and the libs helped!
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 1 October 2010 9:19:56 PM
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