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The Forum > Article Comments > Dying to talk about euthanasia > Comments

Dying to talk about euthanasia : Comments

By The Redhead, published 20/9/2010

Let’s show some courage as a community. Let's have some sensible, adult discussion on euthanasia.

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Foxy,

So just to clarify: when you write

<<I look upon "mercy killing," as something that's done (under medical advice) as a last resort,and only to alleviate the person's pain and suffering. A person who is dying anyway.>>

are you talking about 'mercy' killing with or without the person's consent - 'under medical advice' of course, whatever that might mean in real-life ? 'Last resort' or not ? Funny how talk of 'last resort' imposes a sort of urgency on the killing process. It's a bit like the way that talking of 'dying with dignity' and 'quality of life' also tarts up killing.

Can we assume the person's consent, 100 % ? i.e. nobody else making judgments about killing somebody 'to alleviate the person's pain and suffering' ?

I'm intrigued about your throw-away proviso: 'a person who is dying anyway.' We all are, Foxy: can you see how this could be stretched to conceivably include any of us?

Or are you subtly introducing an age-limit on how much life each of us should be limited to ?

You wouldn't be a Green supporter by any chance ? Is there a strand of Green ideology that depicts humans as excrescences which should be 'minimised' ? Is there also a move amongst those Greens to self-sterilise ? Or is it only the rest of us, the unenlightened, who are excrescences ? I letterboxed and handed out electoral material for the Greens for about ten years: unless they clarify this issue fully, that will be the end of that. I'm already p!ssed off at their Indigenous policies.

Or are you a Christian or Muslim - do you believe that death doesn't matter much, you'll go straight to heaven anyway ? Sorry mate, there's no heaven, no after-life: this is all we are going to get, make the best of it - and let others do so too.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 25 September 2010 4:05:23 PM
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Returning to the elephant in the room - the active and widespread discrimination against the aged that is an outstanding feature of our culture - what is there to prevent further discrimination and prejudicial treatment, such as funds being withdrawn from hospitals and aged care, if euthanasia is made available?

The overwhelming majority of seniors who are opposed to euthanasia because they don't trust government and the motivations of the Greens, have good cause to be worried. Since when did the Greens' leader Bob Brown, or any of the other Greens who polish the plush leather seats in the Senate, ever demonstrate any interest in improving aged care?

Rhetoric is one thing but behaviour is another. None of the 'checks and balances' in the euthanasia law proposed by the Greens mean squat in a culture where seniors are routinely blamed in Australia's State and federal parliaments (and without one word being said in their defence) for past and present failures in planning and blown budgets.

What about as a simple first step in gaining credibility for their euthanasia initiative that the Greens show similar leadership in dealing with the rogue elephant that is discrimination against the aged? We hear a lot about other forms of discrimination, most of which has been resolved, but there is a stony silence concerning the obvious stereotyping and prejudice against the aged and certainly no mention of ever devoting an equality commissioner to it.

Seniors are entitled to ask why euthanasia is urgent, but fixing the broken aged care system is not. They are also entitled to ask why nothing is done about discrimination against the aged which is the most common and destructive form of discrimination in Australia, by a country mile.

Hell would freeze over before the Greens would ever propose a Commissioner for the Aged.

It would be wrong though to suppose that the Greens have not been thinking of the old, because they have proposed new taxes for their estates. Perhaps the aged need their positions 're-adjusted' through the positive affirmative action of euthanasia and death duties. Soylent Green, anyone?
Posted by Cornflower, Saturday, 25 September 2010 6:49:06 PM
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Dear Joe,

Kindly re-read my previous posts
I've already answered your questions.

As for my religion - that Sir, is frankly
none of your business.

But because I've been raised to be polite,
and it's not a secret anyway because I
specified my religion in earlier posts I shall
let you know that I am a Catholic, a young
happily married female, a librarian by profession,
who was raised in a Liberal voting family.
As for my own political inclinations - they vary,
although I have to admit that I have never voted
for the Greens - for a variety of reasons.

By the way, labelling people doesn't achieve
anything constructive, neither does making
assumptions about them through a narrow lens, or
trying to fit them into one of your chosen
"categories." I haven't done that to you,
I expect the same courtesy in return.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 25 September 2010 7:01:50 PM
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Loudmouth;
"* Yes to suicide (including, say, self-adminstered morphine pumps), yes to wills signed within a period of a year or two before the plug is pulled, yes (with qualifications) to the pulling of plugs.

* No to murder, no to the killing of old people on economic grounds, no to the killing of the demented, no to the killing of people on the grounds of 'poor quality of life' and to 'let them die with dignity', etc."

.
Pretty much- we simply extend this new right on the grounds that the motion to euthanize comes ONLY from the patient in some.
Hence why the discussion is finished- because such discussions frequently boil down to majority agreement to this general concept with only an elaboration of precise legal parameters to ensure this is the case (eg witnesses to request, assessments by third parties depending on how much different individuals regard as necessary for transparency vs the probability that it imposes obstacles on the patient.

My stance of Euthanasia is that it is simply a human right.
Posted by King Hazza, Saturday, 25 September 2010 7:08:29 PM
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Cornflower,

<<Seniors are entitled to ask why euthanasia is urgent, but fixing the broken aged care system is not. They are also entitled to ask why nothing is done about discrimination against the aged which is the most common and destructive form of discrimination in Australia, by a country mile.>>

Yes, you're spot-on ! Why the faux compassion about 'quality of life' and 'dignity' but so little said about better palliative care and pain relief ?

Foxy,

Sorry, I meant nothing personal, I was just curious. So you do believe that there is an after-life ? I don't: this earthly life is all we 'get', in my view.

King Hazza,

But that's exactly the point ! The most difficult issues are precisely those that fall in between suicide and murder. Otherwise don't call it 'euthanasia' - call it what it is: suicide. i.e. an act of an individual, involving no other person whatsoever. End of story. Legalise suicide.

I think we are now starting to get somewhere :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 25 September 2010 10:25:19 PM
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Actually Joe, Euthanasia is a subject viewed in all manner of ways by both Christians and Athiests ie [individual/personal viewpoints] as opposed to lumping in Christians with a solid view that if they believe in after life or God they will not treat life here as precious. Factually wrong for obvious reasons.

I daresay most people [whether Athiests or Christians] view this life more seriously worrying themselves sick about the future of their children and the heartache our kids and family will endure, when we die. Most people do not wish to say goodbye to family and/or leave all that their conscious minds have known regardless of thoughts or beliefs in afterlife Joe. A natural selfish emotion. Few people wish to join another world given they believe in God and/or Jesus Christ.

When or if my pain threshold becomes too much, I will be honest, regardless of trying to follow as many Commandments as able, I will not hesitate in requesting the last top up of morphine or whatever is available in the near future to end my suffering and that of my children or spouse seeing me in prolonged pain for a year or two.

I will ensure that I, my children or a spouse/close friend inform the nursing staff to increase the morphine at whatever levels it takes to finish my organs off.

At the end of the day no-one wishes to be suffering from long term chronic unbearable pain [as my father in law told me when dying of stomach cancer] "its as if a knife is being stabbed through my intestines and stomach all day a hundred times over".

We nursed him up to two weeks prior to dying [he begged for hospital knowing that the morphine would be given in greater amounts] to ensure he was not suffering from the degree of pain felt at home.
Posted by we are unique, Saturday, 25 September 2010 10:38:13 PM
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