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The Forum > Article Comments > Fundamentalist Trojan horse in public school grounds > Comments

Fundamentalist Trojan horse in public school grounds : Comments

By Glen Coulton, published 9/9/2010

Fundamentalist religions succeed in establishing a beachhead in a NSW government high school.

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Why We Need Fundamentalist Christianity:

Fundamentalists Christians are the necessary evil in a Global war of fundamentalism. They must be cultivated not eliminated. They must be controlled not controlling. Used for the war, and allowed to recruit;

Allowing fundamentalists into secular schools is actually a controlling mechanism: A political necessity in the global war of fundamental terror. A recruiting tool for society not themselves.

Under the historic circumstances of the moment, promotion and cultivation of fundamentalist Christian ideals are a socially useful tool. Try some lateral thinking! Obviously our politicians have considered the cause, Re: George Bush, John Howard and now DET NSW.
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:46:55 PM
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Glen, you are right - a school should be consistent. And if it makes out to be completely secular, then it should not accept religious donations. Agreed.

It's just that, in making that point, there is a stance that it is possible to be completely secular. Now there are many different definitions for 'secular'. It would be naive to pretend that there is just one; that it is a simple concept. Even in a religious realm, the word secular is used to describe those lay members of the faith that are not of the monastic or 'religious' orders.

We live in a time where some believe that it is possible to be fully secular in the sense of 'free of religion' and that this is a good thing. I think that is misleading and far too 'idealistic.' It treats religion as a disease that needs to be cleaned out of people.

Religion offers so much and indeed, the great majority of the population of the world is religious. It is unhealthy and a little pedantic to intend to 'sanitise' children from religion. It deprives them of something that can be a great help to them now, and perhaps more importantly, later in life.

In that vein I thought your guidelines for use of the building were pedantic. However, if this is a school where parents are deliberately sending their children so that they will have no contact with any religion, then I can see how the school may have an issue on its hands.

Some adults are certainly disenchanted with religion. This is understandable given perhaps their own experience or that of others. Unfortunate experiences are the fault of individuals who have made mistakes, not the religion itself. So often we blame the song, not the singer.

Religious-based ethics is often based itelf on time-tested philosophy and the great minds in the churches throughout history have contributed to the body of knowledge that we now teach our children. It would be a shame to deprive them of that, thinking all the while that we are doing them a favour.
Posted by ink blot, Friday, 10 September 2010 6:49:02 AM
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Ink Blot
Sorry to have been off the air all day. Fridays are wall to wall recorder teaching/playing. I think we very nearly understand one another. Would it help to close the remaining gap if I said I'd be delighted for children to be told about what the great thinkers have said, both religious and non-religious, provided that they are not then forced/enjoined to believe any of it for which there is no compelling and reproducible evidence. And yes, I guess I mean evidence of a standard that would persuade a scientist that a theory was strong enough to be regarded as a principle. I can't prove that there isn’t a god; the other guy can't prove that there is. What I worry about is when the other guy nevertheless says to children that they must believe that there is, and to us that we must behave as if there were a god and in accordance with the other guy's superior knowledge about what that god demands of us. What I think of as a secular society is one whose rules and conventions are uninfluenced by mores that have nothing going for them except some religious organisation's faith-based beliefs.
Posted by GlenC, Friday, 10 September 2010 5:56:09 PM
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Fantastic Article Glen, I quite agree.
If we are supposed to be a secular nation this action is a blight on our reputation (not to mention our education)!

When I was a kid, scripture lessons were a waste of time- I would sooner have been doing my homework (and actually achieving something important) than be spoken down to by a bunch of reformed druggies who "saw the light". I say this as someone who has never even handled an illicit drug, and conducted myself to behaviour that would shame most Christians even after they 'found God'- let alone before.

Also
Everyone stop feeding the troll (Runner).
He insists that "Morality" only exists in Jesus Christ and cannot possibly, in any shape or form exist outside it. There's no point trying to point out anything contradictory because he will shrug it off.
Posted by King Hazza, Saturday, 11 September 2010 10:00:21 AM
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Glen

I think we do agree - in a secular school there's no point teaching people to believe in a particular religion. However, there should be a 'healthy' attitude towards religion- a worldwide phenomenon that brings hope and fulfilment to many people who otherwise find no meaning in life. It's not an outdated disease to be avoided at all costs.

I went to a school where religion was taught, but more important for me were lessons on philosophy, not religious-based, but inevitably led me to conclude that my religous convictions were sound. I think that if an honest look at the history of philosophy was taught, (and Christian philosophy has contributed much to that) then non-believers could make their own minds up and people with religious convictions would either confirm them or quesiton/scrutinise them further.

I'd still argue that it's very hard to be completely 'secular'. Teaching straight empirical sciences is not the objective panacea it's made out to be. What about metaphysical sciences such as anthropology that are somewhat unproven empirically but are sound theory-based subjects. Psychology is a bit of a mix of science and a behavioural-based study right? So we need to be open to teach these things, in some way, to children. How do children learn about virtues? How do we instruct them to treat other people etc? In what context do we teach them about love and feelings? Often, a religious perspective is very instructive here.

What is essential is an open attitude. However, all teachers have their 'dogmas' as earlier stated. As we are all human with our own peculiar experiences, we all find it hard to teach without imposing our own prejudices on people. And from a Christian's perspective, I see much anti-religious sentiment that is unfairly passed on to younger generations. What churches have to offer is valuable to many and the many need to be given the opportunity to learn about them in a non-prejudiced way.

However, in a secular school, if one religion is favoured over others, that would indeed be prejudiced and I do agree with your main argument.
Posted by ink blot, Sunday, 12 September 2010 9:08:52 AM
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Problem inkblot is that most religions contain some rather abhorrent teachings, and the greater function of a school is to encourage independent thought- which would require teaching the good and the bad, or else start instigating a process of coerced agreement as to what is 'great' because the system policy says so.

The downside is that Australia will never have the balls to implement a system that doesn't treat its content with rose-colored glasses (outside history- in certain circumstances) for fear of lawsuits.
As it is, atheists and gays will be sitting around listening to how various ideologies (that perceive them to be soulless abominations and deviants) are so wonderful.

Also, a problem to consider is that religion also brings a lot of grief to the world- including through the very same people who themselves gained fulfillment and hope themselves.
Posted by King Hazza, Sunday, 12 September 2010 10:14:57 AM
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