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The Forum > Article Comments > I have a dream > Comments

I have a dream : Comments

By John Tomlinson, published 15/6/2010

Sometimes people who have been visited by a Kadaitcha man get sick and die within a few days ...

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I'll start by apologising from the start to all aborigines for my assumptions that follow. But everyone else has been making assumptions now called interpretations so why not me or anyone else.
Dreamtime stories are wonderfdul nature-enriched stories that fulfilledthe needs of the primitive pre-Whiteys arrival. Post-whitey's communities today are nothing more than failed industrial/commercialised ones with embedded Indigeneous communities. Those Dreamtime stories of old are no longer are relevant. Just as Judea-Christian stories are irrelevant. Both communities need to get into the 21st century's complex and make their adjustments.
To the indigenous people i say " Today needs a new set of Dreams that will work for you and its not about dreaming for another 2 flagons of wine or some more two litre bottles of Coke in one hand and Kentucky fries in the other. It isnt about incest and child abuse, beating up your women folk. Nor about what petrol sniffing will give you in the way of chemical dreams.
Its time to awake. Dreaming belongs to the night time. Live in the sun.
socratease
Posted by socratease, Saturday, 19 June 2010 12:49:11 PM
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Quayle - I don't put words in anyone's mouth! Words are mine to comment or in rebuttal if I've an alternate POV or perceive inaccuracies. What comes out of your mouth is your responsibility.

You present as someone politically active in aboriginal affairs. I'm interested to learn a little background. Taking your ability to communicate well in generally good english and use electronic media I'm guessing you're <45 with reasonable education. Frequent internet useage means it's probable you live in contempory housing with electricity and modern amenities. Also guess that like most of todays Aboriginals you are of mixed race? Meeting you, would I likely deduct from appearance that you have aboriginal heritage? Growing up, did you get an "aboriginal education" from family/ elders and identify strongly as aboriginal? If you are mixed heritage, what influences came from the non-aboriginal side? What field are you employed in? Are you active in an aboriginal community outside close family?

I ask out of interest in experiences of people who may be in process of transition - feet planted firmly in the 21st century but wishing to retain the best of old beliefs and traditions. Is this you?

Certainly from writings, one assumes that for you, aboriginal culture has evolved into a softer, less rigid belief system. Could this be response to changing spiritual needs of people living in a current 'Western' environment? I'm not having a swipe at you. I'd make comparision that Western Christians stopped burning "witches" couple of hundred years ago though "witchcraft" is still unacceptable.

Most aboriginals I actually 'know' nowadays (opposed to contact through healthcare systems) are Christian. All are mixed-race living "Australian" lifestyles. Some maintain favoured traditions - particularly hunting, fishing and bush foods. Others, especially young adults seem disinterested.

Absolutely no belief in Kadaitcha Men among any of them methinks.

You say women are backbone of todays Aboriginal society. I won't argue. Good strong women are the most determined agents of change and improvement in their communities by my observations though many face extremely hard battles. If you're part of that Quayle, I wish you success.
Posted by divine_msn, Saturday, 19 June 2010 11:25:13 PM
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Hi divine_msn,

Yes, I am an older Aboriginal woman 45+ and very proud, yes, I did go to school and receive an education, and yes, I am a frequent internet user. I have learned and continued to learn from many mediums.

I agree many cultures do move and transform over time, no culture can stay frozen and of course many are influenced by external players regardless of whether they choose to or not.

But if my culture is influenced by other cultures does that make me unAboriginal? like when Australians take on many other influences from other cultures, does that make them unAustralian?

How much Australian culture is influenced by Aboriginal culture? I imagine more then what people know or think about, name places for example "Parramatta" certainly isn't an English word, it's Aboriginal for Eel Dreaming, Oh! and there is the Eels, Parramatta football team, I wonder if their emblem was influenced by Aboriginal knowledge?

Then there is billabong, an Aboriginal word for waterhole and yet, it's a word in "Waltzing Matilda and a famous Australian clothing brand. So whose culture influenced and influences who? Australia is Australia because it's Aboriginal people and of course other things but it history is very much about Aboriginal people.

I have traveled overseas and observed that Australian English is very different from the England's English, American English, New Zealand English, why did the English language evolve in Australia differently? Why are there words like Parramatta, Cabramatta, Billabong, galah, coo-ee, why do Australians call people "silly galahs?" and no other English speaking nation does?

So who influenced and influences who? does your influence take away my being? or is my culture also adopted into yours?

So why can't we just accept that like many other cultures we do have a past, that is present today and will also influence our future - that culture can shift, change and move and still be very much a culture formed by it's original origins?
Posted by Quayle, Friday, 2 July 2010 9:43:50 AM
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Loudmouth you ask me how many cases of forcible removal have gone to court and been found to have been examples of an entire stolen generation ?

I take it you think the legal system equates justice, that everyone who takes on a legal action will receive justice, nice notion, not a reality, but it would be nice and that if I go to Court for my legal matter, then my matter sets a precedent for every other matter, it can sometimes but it depends whether the Government wants to set up a Tribunal or alternative.

The Tasmanian Government just compensated Aboriginal people removed from their families rather then paying out millions in legal actions and to right a wrong.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200611/s1799592.htm

Any legal action around the stolen generations becomes very complex:
http://www.eniar.org/stolengenerations.html.

As for "just simple bureaucratic over-reach", maybe you should tell ALL the Aboriginal children that were removed and parents suffering that.
Posted by Quayle, Friday, 2 July 2010 7:25:10 PM
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Socratease,
Your 220 years of history all sounds a bit boring - I would much rather look at our landscape and "see" the Myths that brought it into existence , hear the chants ,the language and see how life went on without the excesses of modern life .

Unfortunately, but naturally ,with the red-neck and racist attitudes of many so called Australians , the Keepers of Aboriginal Myths and Legends quickly worked out they would rather, except for those whom they can trust ,keep their 50,000 years of history to themselves.
Posted by kartiya jim, Friday, 2 July 2010 10:15:53 PM
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