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The Forum > Article Comments > False Labor > Comments

False Labor : Comments

By Geoff Davies, published 12/5/2010

Isn’t it time we declared the Labor Party officially dead? The party lost its vision long ago.

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Peter Hume,

Thanks for an interesting post.

I recall an old "z" grade movie called "Strike Bound" about the formation of the Labor Party. Today's ALP is a different creature. The Liberals have never been a true liberal party, and are less so today.

Socialism crossesthe divide. Welfare and subsidies. Payments to single mothers with ten kids and bailing out corporates. In WWII, Mussolini was head of corporations not just head of state. That presence of "socialism" is often missed, under the label of State Capitalism
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 2:27:49 PM
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A few responses to comments so far.

Peter,
I think the reason privatisation has been so popular is simply that it has been used to “balance” budgets. Selling the farm piecemeal, the most blatant violation of good management, but the commentariat lets them get away with it. The reason is the fat cats, who own the commentators, get bargains.

I don’t have a problem with intevention, but it should be done openly, intelligently, coherently and for the benefit of the whole society, not fat cats. And as I indicated earlier, I don’t mean brute socialist micromanagement, I mean judicious management of the incentives that markets follow.

Chris,
You seem to have a very limited view of our economic possibilities. We have one of the most educated populations in the world, we speak most significant languages, we have ample land (if we use it judiciously), vast ocean resources, a moderate (though deteriorating) climate, etc. We are innovative, but our local entrepreneurs are only interested in fast bucks, so we lose most of our best options overseas. Our manufacturing sector has been stunted and repeatedly gutted by stupid policies often based, I’m afraid, on misguided faith in “competition”.

We can make a very good living without relying on debt, the quarry, fickle commodity markets, overseas financiers, or absurd levels of trade (my kiwi fruit turned out to be from Italy, for god’s sake). However our politicians still have a cringing colonial mentality and are captured by an ideology, and our entrepreneurs are only interested in the fast buck.

With some halfway decent leadership we could do very much better I think.

Slobodon (love the handle),
Howard did enormous damage to our society. I had hoped Rudd might repair a bit of it, but he doesn’t seem to have a clue – or doesn’t want to. Howard Lite.
Posted by Geoff Davies, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 4:07:59 PM
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Geoff,

I agree with you that things can be done much better. They have to be.

However, I would argue that the world is so complex and competitive, that all factors have to be taken into account. Take the mining tax. Of course, we need revenue to pay for other schemes such as super, but the miners have some argument that investment opportunities exist elsewhere. Perhaps the govt will have to shift a little to find a better policy mix.

I agree with you, we cannot afford to give up. However, the situation for Western societies is much more complex and competitive that previous decades

Do i have my own ideas. Yes, i intend to offer some in the future. But I will not pretend to think I have any answer will be fool proof. I see more pain ahead. In this climate of policy mediocrity and complexity, it may well be that societies may even turn against themselves. Hence, we will need policy ideas that can transcend party traditions
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 4:47:39 PM
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Geoff,
You said "We can make a very good living without relying on debt, the quarry, fickle commodity markets, overseas financiers, or absurd levels of trade (my kiwi fruit turned out to be from Italy, for god’s sake). However our politicians still have a cringing colonial mentality and are captured by an ideology, and our entrepreneurs are only interested in the fast buck".

This sounds appealing to some. But think about it. How far do you think Australia would get if it downplayed such factors in this world of freer trade with the great powers setting the rules (the US, and EU, its allies, and may be soon china).

I agree that such trends are a bit of a joke in that they are not going to save Western nations, but are you suggesting that Australia goes alone? Are you suggesting we just throw scarce resources at new industries? Where will the money come from as surely someone will have to pay? Are you suggesting that world peace would be more likely without such trade?

The trouble with the blind left is they saw in Rudd a false prophet. People who knew politics knew his potential to deliver was limited. The rest just hoped and prayed, much in the same way that people have faith in other matters.

I have never thought that recent trends are great. Read my early Quadrant pieces. People who blindly believe in free trade as some fool proof model are sadly mistaken, although I am passionate that liberalism is the most realistic of all political concepts in a world of competing nations.

Any other solution will bring other unintended consequences, although I believe that there is little doubt that the level of government intervention will again increase a little in most Western nations (just a little).
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 5:07:28 PM
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Chris,
If you are fixed on GDP growth as the purpose of the economy, then some of what you say might follow. However GDP does not measure wellbeing or quality of life, it measures how busy we are in things that involve money. Our frantic activity is causing us direct harm (stress, poor health, overconsumption, etc.) and grave indirect harm (destruction of our life support system).

If the economy is conceived as existing to support the kind of quality life we choose (and I’m not dictating what that is, beyond pointing out the natural limits of our environment and ourselves), then we can thrive working fewer hours, working smarter, and using far fewer resources as we learn to recycle materials and use materials and energy far more efficiently than we do.

A lot of the fuss about trade, international competitiveness and complexity drops away in this view. Yes, let’s trade only what and how we choose. If we can borrow money overseas we can create it ourselves (we have to create local currency anyway to use the overseas loans locally). Better yet, pay down the debt, which is highly destabilising (Steve Keen, http://cpd.org.au/paper/deeper-debt), and gradually shift to using savings (shock, horror).

And no, world trade doesn’t guarantee peace. That was being claimed in 1913 too.

It’s a different view of the economy, though not so different from the view 50 years ago. I developed it in my book Economia http://betternature.wordpress.com/economia/.
Posted by Geoff Davies, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 7:03:26 PM
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Geoff,

"If you are fixed on GDP growth as the purpose of the economy, then some of what you say might follow. However GDP does not measure wellbeing or quality of life, it measures how busy we are in things that involve money. Our frantic activity is causing us direct harm (stress, poor health, overconsumption, etc.) and grave indirect harm (destruction of our life support system)."

The Human Development Index is a better measure of quality of life. Australia rates very high on the HDI. Anotherless common measure is assets per capita. Australia is high on this measure too. There is also Parity Purchasing Power and a country's Gini co-efficient.
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 7:10:46 PM
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