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The Forum > Article Comments > Seven key facts about the Vatican, the Pope and child sexual abuse by Catholic clergy > Comments

Seven key facts about the Vatican, the Pope and child sexual abuse by Catholic clergy : Comments

By Ben Mathews, published 22/4/2010

Recent comments from Vatican officials in the wake of child sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, and the reporting of them, call for some clarification of key concepts to inform public debate and policy responses.

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Disgraceful, I couldn't finish this piece. and What i did read I thinght was wrong. Tell me where my maths is wrong...

"Of these, 50.9 per cent of alleged victims were aged between 11-14, 27.3 per cent were 15-17, 16 per cent were aged 8-10 and almost 6 per cent were aged under 7 (John Jay College of Criminal Justice).

Therefore, while a not insignificant proportion of alleged cases involve paedophilia, the majority of cases of clerical abuse of children cannot be classified in this way, and all cases of child sexual abuse should definitely not be called “paedophilia”. "

I make it 50.9% + 16% + 6% = 75% so 75% was on kids 14 and under but the author says that is not a majority? where did he learn math?
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 22 April 2010 1:42:21 PM
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with 81% of the victims being quoted as boys and the catholic church not having female priests one wonders whether this article is trying to defend the actions of priests practicing homosexuality or just a play on terminologies. I doubt whether most victims care to much about these different terms given to the offenders. If it was men raping girls or women we would have no problem declaring these offenders as heterosexuals. Like with sex abuse that comes from elders in some cultures many seem more interested in being pc than caring about the kids. I am no fan of the Catholic church (who have murdered many believers in the past) but can't help but to observe that many of its attackers really don't give a stuff about the kids and really don't want to accept simple facts. All they want to do is somehow make the appalling efforts of the Catholic church somehow worse than the appalling actions of scouts, judges, MP's teachers and atheist who have fiddled with kids
Posted by runner, Thursday, 22 April 2010 2:30:45 PM
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OLO folk, might also be interested in a parellel thread which is discusssing the Benedict, JPII and the ex Boston Bishop now Arch Priest Law regarding paedophilia and Church cover-ups and what criminal action should be taken or not taken.

Please refer:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3565&page=24

For me there are several issues. All would agree that paedophilia is a crime. But some at OLO seem okay, with Benedict simply apologising
and issuing new directives. Others, would see that serving Bishops who protected the paedophiles and that the Church root out these people out, including Arch Priest Law, the current Pope. JP II is dead, so he seems to have escaped.

The Vatican and catholic churches international must had over all the clerics and any supportive correspondence to secular authorities.
Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 22 April 2010 3:04:41 PM
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The Catholic church's record on child abuse, more particularly on hushing it up, is simply indefensible. And the emphatic assertion that there is no correlation between paedophilia and homosexuality (no doubt true) seems rather defensive. Can there be any doubt that homosexuality is rife among consenting celibate clergy? They only have to square that with their God's ostensible law.
It's an appallingly anachronistic institution, like the monarchy, that should have been torn down years ago!
Posted by Squeers, Thursday, 22 April 2010 3:08:28 PM
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The term paedophilia has found common usage in the public domain. Likewise, many people use the the term paedogogy incorrectly, when in most cases the more accurate term is androgogy.

In the Bishop Law case, in Boston, it was argued that there was no compulsion to report a crime, akin to you or I, seeing a break-in.

One the other hand, in the case of the Catholic Church, the Bishops and Cardinals seem to have ejhoined themselves to the core criminals by proteting them (writing letters and facilitating transfers)and providing situations where they can re-offend. If know the person committed he robbery and provide a means of avoiding capture surely the situation has changed, leaning more towards criminality.

If memory, serves the Americans executed the doctor who saved the life of John Wilkes Booth, after the Lincoln assassination (I need check.)
Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 22 April 2010 3:22:37 PM
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Kenny, Runner, Squeers, Oliver, i am not so sure that the article author is trying to justify anything, so much as being a dry academic who could be expressing himself better.

But you are all, correct about the PC police getting locked up in doctrinal argument, while ignoring some of the ongoing abuse.

I once got nowhere in 2002 trying to report to the social workers at a catholic church NGO that a young, woman with intellectual disability was being used/abused by a "female" ex prostitute, who had deliberately infected her with herpes, was taking all her pension & was introducing her to new "Boy Friends".

Another matter i have heard nobody discussing in relation to this, is that Communists during the 1930's, following instructions from Moscow infiltrated the catholic church as priests.

http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/cs/perspective235.asp

i don't think of this as a convenient excuse for the church either as these revelations came out decades ago & the church obviously had little or nothing in the way of a vetting process, but it is food for thought. if these young men entering the seminary were there, not to do the bidding of god, but the USSR all along, have any of them been properly investigated?
Posted by Formersnag, Thursday, 22 April 2010 5:09:43 PM
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Squeers.....I'm a practising Catholic and I wholeheartedly agree that the way the hierarchy has handled this evil is indefensible. The fact that John Paul II rewarded the disgraceful Cardinal Law of Boston (USA) with a safe life in Rome living in a palace and, allegedly, on a handsome monthly income. I agree, much is anachronistic.....the pomp and ceremony; the imperialistic posturing of the popes; the effeminate dressingup by the male hierarchy; the treatment of women; the fear of sex ( the celibate state is lauded as being holier than the married state except many priests do not believe it) etc etc.

However, that is not the Church. The Church is the local community gathered for Eucharist and where, through St Vincent de Paul etc, much good is done.

The Roman hierarchy, I fear, has been so institutionalised that their humanity has been adversely affected. Without the warmth and energy of the female presence and embrace they seek it in the "Virgin" Mary and in wearing effeminate gear (lace, dresses etc).
Posted by Francis, Thursday, 22 April 2010 7:39:17 PM
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All the latest figures require taking into account FULLY and all the mongrels to be caught charged and thrown into gaol for the rest of their days. Very sadly, these are only the cases known about. As I have stated in another thread Brothers were also paedophiles within boarding schools. I dread to think what the figures and cover-ups in each boarding school are.

Francis, you are correct in your viewpoint; something I was trying to convey in some of my earlier threads ie 'not the catholic church as a whole, rather the hierarchy and administrative side of the church, in addition to the criminals/paedophiles'.

A shocking situation and a @#$$##@ disgrace in our country. Those beautiful boys [and girls] innocent with love and fun that was to be all ahead of them.
Posted by we are unique, Thursday, 22 April 2010 8:44:14 PM
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Francis,
I respect your position, and while I do think the Catholic hierarchy is anachronistic, I can understand the popular appeal of a universal church; especially since, dysfunctional at it (the church) is, there's nothing palatable or sophisticated enough to replace it. The same goes with monarchy; much as it irritates me, I prefer the current system, by far, to the prospect of a popularly elected mega-star (president). What does irk me about the (very idea of the) church is its selfish provincialism--I'm talking here about your "local community gathered for Eucharist". Maybe you should all open the windows and take note of the real world--the way Christ did. But we all tend to take shelter within one faction or another---except Diogenes and the Buddha.

We are unique; let's not indulge in witch hunts, or forget that these crimes against children are not only perpetrated by priests. I bet even some atheists do it.
Posted by Squeers, Thursday, 22 April 2010 9:56:45 PM
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Squeers...I don't regard the hierarchy, ie bishops and priests, as being anachronistic. Rather, the way many carry on, dress etc.is. Clericalism is part of the problem. Fortunately, a number of the Australian ones are decent, humane human beings. Leadership is vital in any community and bishops and priests are called to provide that leadership and oversight (which is what bishop means). Nor is the concept/reality of Church anachronistic as long as we understand what the word means. The hierarchical model that we have needs a good kick up the bum for sure and it needs to be heavily pruned of a lot of the historical accretions that sprung up over time. Considering the Catholic Church is the world's largest non-government humanitarian organization I'm not sure how it could be replaced. What is required of the Roman Catholic Church is a profound reformation. Re monarchy......I'm a republican!

What is "selfish" about the local Church gatherered for Eucharist? Is it any more selfish than the local Rotary gatehred for a meal, fellowship etc (or Lions, or RSL etc etc)? Without the local parish you wouldn't have the local SVDP!
Posted by Francis, Thursday, 22 April 2010 10:19:07 PM
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It is obvious that the author is out of his depth in mathematical logic. On the John Jay statistics, almost three quarters of victims were 14 or younger, which, given a large sample of 4392 perpertrators, clearly suggests that most cases of clergy abuse could be regarded as paedophilia.
He asserts that "It is simply wrong to claim that homosexuals are paedophiles, or that there is a causal relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia. It is also wrong to claim that homosexuality is the fundamental or sole problem causing child sexual abuse by clergy." On the John Jay statistics, 81 per cent of victims were male, which indicates that homosexuality is by far the major problem. Complemented by the suggestion above that most abusing clergy are paedophiles, it follows that a causal relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia cannot be ruled out.
Posted by Raycom, Thursday, 22 April 2010 11:57:36 PM
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Best read my comments about paedophilia on the other pope thread and other related threads Squeers. No witch hunt for Christians and Catholics, Athiests, Muslims, any religious or non-religious denominations, given am friends with many of the above over my 47 years as an Australian.

However, was raised as a practicing catholic, mixed and do mix with catholics [my family and friends]and on this forum, Brothers were hardly given a mention. I know of one victim, how many other beautiful kids lives stuffed up as a result of some Brothers?

At the outset, I stated that statistically most paedophilia is committed within family units. This is true, therefore the religious factor is only part of paedophilia in Australia.

I also advised Australians to look at their own families and extended families as paedophilia [based on statistics] is known to be common within families.

Therefore, Squeers, there is no witch-hunt regarding Brothers. Yet, given the high percentage of paedophilia within the catholic 'system' Brothers need to be also taken into account for investigation.

OLO posters are correct in the majority. The old catholic system I was raised in, is in urgent need of being investigated, paedophiles acknowledged, cover ups acknowledged, and the people if found guilty charged.

This is the only way Australian children and adult Victims can move forward and cease these shocking despicable criminal acts that ruin Victims and families lives forever.

I pray that paedophiles lurking within families or alone seek help from professionals on a regular basis and know that in time paedophiles are caught out and dealt with severely.
Posted by we are unique, Friday, 23 April 2010 2:01:45 AM
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Fair enough, no witch hunt. The unpleasant fact of course is that probably all human beings are prone to sexual misconduct when given opportunity and exposed to temptation. One wonders why God felt it necessary to endow humans with such concupiscence, combined with an infinite imagination. Let's not be prim about it, men will hump anything when pressed; thus the need for strict cultural taboos against the various sex crimes. But if we're going to lock the perpetrators up for life, we might reflect that but for the grace of God goes half the congregation--the other half having only wanted for opportunity. I have 3 girls and 3 boys and have never entrusted them to the care of any male, not even my brothers--whom I trust, but don't put that trust to the test. Taboos against sexual misconduct don't work nearly well enough. I wonder how many practicing paedophiles receive absolution on a weekly bases. The Catholic church not only exacerbates sexual misconduct by denying its healthful expression; it also absolves it--to the complete satisfaction, no doubt, of at least the wilfully stupid.
Francis, no church is a legitimate ngo as they build their empires on the largess of tax exemptions and government indulgence, as well as selling their snake oil--the promise of immortality is surely the ultimate anodyne!
My first wife was from a strong Catholic family and they're a fusty, conservative lot full of ersatz good will, which stops abruptly at the parish limits and blends breezily with the gossip within. The Catholic church, from where I sit, is a decadent corporation at the top, which atomises into small-minded, localised hubs of nationalism, without.
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 23 April 2010 8:30:15 AM
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Francis,

Though a skeptic, I appreciated much of you your post. The primiive church of the first and second centuries was much more commuinity based and allowed greater involvement by the laity. Local pockets of believers were autonomous and would communicate with their peer with "Letters". During the third and fourth centuries, first came administrative centralisation and ultimately political centralisation (Constantine). In the early days, "Confessors" were more revered than bishops.

Where I would choose to differ is culpability on the anarchistic hierarhcy. Herein, John Paul II and Arch Priest Law and Pope Benedict, should not have be allowed evade Court. The Law situation boggles belief. Benedict could still act against Law by demoting him and sending him to the Congo as a parish priest
Posted by Oliver, Friday, 23 April 2010 8:40:53 AM
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Squeers......Some of your statements are outlandish. "Men will hump anything when pressed"!!....is this true of you too? Or only of others. Are you saying that you would "hump" a child "when pressed" or are you exempt?

Since when does the catholic Church deny the healthful expression of human sexuality? Are married couples advised by the hierarchy not to have sex? Just the opposite!

Your last paragraph seems to be more bitter than rational. The last sentence doesn't make sense.
Posted by Francis, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:07:42 PM
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Oliver....spot on! I agree much of the episcopal hierarchy is anachronistic......though the office of bishop need not be so. The vatican hierarchy just makes me bloody livid......all the pomp, lace, funny hats, bowing and scraping and crawling. I agree something must be done re Law though I have doubts about benedict's willingness to do anything (sadly). Benedict moved against Macial after JP II departed the scene (JP II was protecting him). Unfortunately, benedict is, himself, a product of the medievaL institution that the vatican is and I doubt if he has the ability to be empathetic. To the institutionalised protecting the institution is the priority because, I guess, their self-awareness, identity, reason for being is the institution.
Posted by Francis, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:15:37 PM
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Francis, Squeers, Oliver, We Are Unique, Raycom, Further to our earlier posts. How do you feel about the clergy being infiltrated by communists bent on perverting the church?

http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/cs/perspective235.asp

http://www.savethemales.ca/160303.html

Do you think any of these sickos later became paedophiles? Or covered up for any of their communist colleagues who did? What do you think about the poor disabled girl violated by another woman & abandoned by the social workers at a Catholic church NGO, closely linked to "St Vinnie's" BTW?

On another similar forum i mentioned the fate of a man i know who was sexually assaulted by "Nuns" at boarding school, what do you think about that? 2 nuns would line the boys up naked in the showers before they had them. Then go down the line with the first nun digitally stimulating them until achieving erection, whereupon the second nun would hit it with a cane, Nice.

Church NGOs involved in charity/social work is a dreadful corruption of the separation of church & state. What bishop, etc, is going to speak out against incompetent, corrupt, evil, governments, if that will risk the jobs, of 1,000s of their employees?

Or are you all "humanities academics" from the loony, left who are only interested in promoting fauxmanista fantasies about, "only men or priests" being responsible for the abuse/neglect of children?

Kenny, Runner, what do you guys, think about any of the above?
Posted by Formersnag, Friday, 23 April 2010 2:28:29 PM
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Francis,
I'm cut to the quick. I can take any amount of correction and criticism, but this: "The last sentence doesn't make sense" is more than I can bear. You do realise that I use the word "within" figuratively?
But never mind, onto the lesser innuendos:
<"Men will hump anything when pressed"!!....is this true of you too? Or only of others[?]Are you saying that you would "hump" a child "when pressed" or are you exempt?>
Yes, I fear 'tis true of me too, and others; there was a time when the sexual urge overmastered ethics and reason both, though I never buggered boy or untimely interfered with either sex, thank God (though God seems to consider such matters passe, or at least his representatives on Earth do).
Surely, Francis, you perceive that I was again being figurative and alluding to sexual misconduct generally? Do you deny that sexuality takes Man by storm ever and anon? Or that the imagination is rarely satisfied with sanctioned conjugal congress?
That's why our societies are blessed with prostitution, and the internet awash with porn---to satisfy 'deviant' practices (actually the norm. We're 'stereotypically deviant', as are other species. Isn't nature grand!).
Did you not also discern that by "exacerbates sexual misconduct" I was alluding to the celibacy [sic] of the Catholic priesthood? And what about the hypocrisy and patronage of the institution when in the same breath it celebrates the sexuality of the laity? Hypocritical elitism!
I'll reiterate, we are all of us, every one, 'capable' of gross sexual misconduct during our lives; only the circumstances are sometimes wanting. This is not my doctrine; it's a hard reality.
No wonder Freud despaired--though he wasn't getting rich by the state for keeping up appearances.
Formersnag, I can only hope that the communists were not corrupted by the clergy.
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 23 April 2010 7:49:44 PM
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Squeers.....where did you use "within" in the last sentence; I can find "without". Are you referring to the previous sentence....which doesn't make much sense either.

Re "humping anything when pressed" (presumabely the family dog or one's kids).....I notice you identify this as one of your "fears". Please, keep your fears to yourself and do not presume that others will act according to your"fears" as you "fear" you might.

Yes I do deny that "sexuality takes man by storm ever and anon"....at least this man who is happily married. Perhaps you are too pessimistic or fearful.

You seem to think that the catholic priesthood is the only celibate group around (actually there are married Catholic priests)....there are other celibates, both Christian and non-Christian.

It all depends what you mean by "capable of gross immorality".
Posted by Francis, Friday, 23 April 2010 8:13:37 PM
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Formersnag you write

'Church NGOs involved in charity/social work is a dreadful corruption of the separation of church & state'

Maybe you have a point however when you look at the epidemic child abuse among the aboriginal communities which have been run by people on the secular gravy train I am not totally convinced. It is usually the academia on the left that get funded by Government and big business but scream out against Governments the loudest. Often they are just blathering their marxist dogma. Now that public servants are no longer servants but managers' I tend to think churchies do social work cheaper, with less corruption and more heart.
Posted by runner, Friday, 23 April 2010 8:37:59 PM
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Quite right, Francis, it was "without", as in "outside".

Where did you find "capable of gross immorality"?
A Freudian slip?
"gross sexual misconduct" was what I said.
But this is silly. You're an intelligent fellow and I've no wish to bandy words. I'm sorry if my tone was a bit off. There are things about humanity that are hard to bear, however they have to be acknowledged---which doesn't mean I condone them.
I'm also happily married and contented; but there was a time when I was capable of misconduct, as there is for us all, whether we admit it or not.
While my heart breaks for the innocent victims of sexual abuse (I've known some too), I'm not without sympathy for the perpetrators, especially priests, whom must content with their redoubled sins.
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 23 April 2010 9:19:37 PM
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The author and general public have been influenced by widespread misreporting of the facts. For the facts, see for example the article by Jack Valero that first appeared in The Guardian (http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/message_to_the_lynch_mob_the_pope_is_innocent/).
He points out that suspension and defrocking of priests are two separate actions. The first can be done by a bishop, with immediate effect; the second is a lengthy process that involves Rome. Suspension – meaning a priest is no longer able to function as a priest –is the key action that a bishop has to take against an abusive priest to prevent him having contact with minors. If, in any of these "smoking gun" cases, the bishop failed to suspend an abusive priest immediately, he did wrong. But such failure would have had nothing to do with Cardinal Ratzinger, whose only involvement was when a request for defrocking landed on his desk.
The Pope is completely innocent of the charges made against him.
Posted by Raycom, Friday, 23 April 2010 11:45:53 PM
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Is there any correlation between child sex abuse in the Catholic Church, homosexuality and paedophilia?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010_docs/Homosexuality_Church_Crisis2.pdf
Posted by Proxy, Saturday, 24 April 2010 1:39:32 PM
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I read the Lothstein interview.
What a crock!
Lothstein would have us believe that "40% of priests are homosexuals, who are having sex with age appropriate males".
Among the remaining heterosexual 60% are the priests who sexually abuse young boys because "they can't get them pregnant" and besides, their "mothers never said it was wrong to have sex with men"!
Who could swallow this tripe?
Bertone has more credibility on this issue.
Posted by Proxy, Saturday, 24 April 2010 9:27:04 PM
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Kenny, I have two things to add.

First, I should have made it clear that I am not attempting to defend any paedophile, or any other person who has sexually abused a child. My reason for writing this piece is to clarify some ideas so the real reasons for clergy sexual abuse of children (and women) can be identified (and not explained away as ‘paedophilia’), and so the Catholic Church cannot claim it can end the clergy sexual abuse crisis by eradicating ‘paedophilia’.

Second, you’ve drawn my attention to the need to give more detail about my conclusion that most cases of clergy sexual abuse of children are not technically ‘paedophilia’ (due to word limits, I could not write everything):
1. Dr Lothstein, who has treated hundreds of Catholic priests, states ‘I’ve only seen a handful of men who’ve actually been genuine paedophiles, when you use that term correctly’;
2. Recall that paedophilia involves activity with only prepubertal children, and the average age of onset of puberty in boys is about 11.5, and in girls it is about 10.9 (see eg Parent et al, “The Timing of Normal Puberty’ (2003) 24(5) Endocrine Reviews 668-693, p 670-672);
3. In light of this, and if you read the John Jay report, Tables 3.5.5 and 3.5.6, you’ll see the figures provided for the age groups indicate strongly that: (a) those aged 15-17 are almost certainly not ‘genuine paedophilia’; (b) most of those in the 11-14 age group are probably not ‘genuine paedophilia’; (c) these two groups are 78.2% of all the cases where this question was answered; (d) some and possibly most cases in the 8-10 age group may be ‘genuine paedophilia’, but even some of these may not be (eg if the child was not pre-pubertal); and (e) those in the age 1-7 group (the smallest group by far) are far more likely the victims of ‘genuine paedophilia’.
4. These tables show a strong decline over time in victims in the 1-7 and 8-10 age groups, and an overall increase in victims in the 15-17 year age group.
Posted by Ben M, Monday, 26 April 2010 11:41:00 AM
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Francis,

I suspect the church heirarchy has polical cliques evident in strenghth, like all large organisations. Moreover, being a "brotherhood", they are willing to protect each other as do the military and police. Sometimes fall guys are offered to placate the crowd, yet, the top teams all too often escape accountability: Somewhat analogous to blaming ships' captains for the mistakes of the War Office: e.g., the sinking of the Lusitana in WWI.

I appreciate that often the Bishops may not be front-line offenders, yet, they should be hauled into Court is there is evidence of covering-up a crime.

Formersnang,

A person I know tells of a boarding school Catholic Brother, relating from experiences in his youth. The brother would test the warmth of the water in all the boys' showers, while they where showering. The thing was, the water came from a common source and had a common heat
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 26 April 2010 11:48:05 AM
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Ben M.,

How many times have educators used the word pedagogy (children) when there mean androgogy (adults)? I think the same applies for common usage of terms here?

All these age-differential conditions fall under the arching term gerontophilia, wherein, we can have the reverse situation, say, a 20 year old only attacted to octogenarians
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 26 April 2010 2:37:27 PM
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The seedy scandal that has rocked the Vatican will live another day. An obscene travesty perpetuated for centuries, and condoned by Pope's and Bishops alike is unlikely to go away, or swept under the carpet. As George Bush said: " the buck stops with me ". Anyone with an inkling of empathy and compassion for victims of this sordid crime, should front up and shoulder some of the blame. Spruiking profuse apologies is so much worthless mouthing. It flows off a ducks back. Measure dollar for dollar. " put your money where your mouth is " - saying goes.

Ben Mathews's article is enlightening, and I am sure many are shocked, saddened and put off by the betrayal of the Catholic Church to the vast congregations of practicing Catholics, throughout Australia. Catholic schools, seminaries, nunneries etc are repulsed by the attitude of some clergy, but more salient is the inexorable shame by hierarchy, for showing their true colors, shirking their responsibilities from which they are amply rewarded, and showing no rectitude whatsoever ! The deluded Bishops are blaming the victims - as if 200 deaf mutes had any choice in the matter ?

The centuries old Vatican bureaucracy, comprising the elite " curia " or old boy's club, is the citadel of power within the Church. It maintains a culture of secrecy and duplicity. Herein lies the heartland of the CC.

The New York Times recently publicized the story of " Bad shepherd - God's Rottweiler Joseph Ratzinger ". Referring to his utmost contempt for his fellow priest, but importantly his impotence for not doing more to heal the rift that threatens the very foundations of the CC. In Boston alone over 10,000 suffered daily abuse by 4400 priest who swear oaths of allegiance to Almighty, administer the Holy sacraments, and continue to rape children ? 15,000 Irish children suffered untold bestiality at the hands of 5400 clergymen.

Newsweek highlighted the plight of the Church in Washington, and the good work carried out by moral crusader Attorney Jeff Anderson, who for two decades pursued errant clergymen, exacting tens of
cont..
Posted by jacinta, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 3:39:14 PM
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millions for misconduct and obnoxious filth.

Personally, these sexual deviants should be incarcerated, castrated and thrown among proscribed psychotics, to endure some of the disgusting malfeasance meted out on their innocent sufferers. Seldom, if at all, are these hypocrites subjected to the full extent of the Law. Plea bargaining, and character references from prominent Politicians, Judiciary etc predictably absolves them from jail time. Pity, they dont show the same remorse to their childhood victims. Until, something is implemented to curb this insidious malignancy, priest will continue to offend.

The Holy See, it is widely claimed is protected by Foreign Sovereignty and is above prosecution in a Civil Court. Rubbish. Several high-flying Attorneys and High Court Judges in Britain, have unequivocally stated the Pope can be brought to justice in Courts across the Land, and The International Court of Justice in the Hague, on crimes against Humanity. The spurious claim that the Vatican is a Sovereign State is disputable. That it was acknowledge by Italy first, and followed by successive Govts, paying lip service to the Vatican's Ambassadorial exchanges. It requires fortitude, loads of cash, and a determined team of like-minded individuals or NGO's to mount a challenge. The gambit formerly brought Chilean General Pinochet, and Serbian leader Milosevic to justice for similar crimes. Hitherto, they claimed Sovereign Rights exemption. Pol Pot, Khmer Rouge leader in Cambodia should have been tried " in absentia ", along with Idi Amin. Mugabbe etc.

The Vatican is in overdrive in damage control. Ratzinger's spokesperson Cardinal Lombardi was at pains to defend Benedict XVI, committing gaffe after gaffe, comparing the Jewish Holocaust with JR"s predicament. Tellingly, Lombardi created a distinguished (cv) persona of His Holiness, exuding his piousness and humility, his intellectual acumen in Doctrines of the Faith. He painted his Pope as a saintly Apostle of St Peter, and heir to the Throne of His Kingdom ? Among his other vices, include his penchant for royal sable, soft mole skin (red) shoes. DVD's in which he is accompanied by Rome's Philharmonic Orchestra, and his devotion to his favourite charity. He was an avid skier.
Posted by jacinta, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 4:46:31 PM
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The Vatican in WWII, under Pious XII was condemned for not preventing the Holocaust, openly resisting Nazism, and condoning some of the atrocities committed by the Waffen-SS ( Schutztaffel ) On his watch, the CC in Germany, and occupied territory practiced business as usual. Many Priest were denounced and sent to the gas chambers. Others practiced Nazism and wholeheartedly supported the regime.

Lombardi characterised Ratzinger's early childhood as one of a book-worm. Devoted to his Parents, with a brother alienated from Hitler ( Jugend ) Youth Brigades, which in 1942 boasted 2,300,000 members. Born in Bavaria, and son of a Police Officer, it is unlikely, either would not have embraced the highly visable protege of the SS. At an impressible age of 14, and Germany at it's peak, it was compulsary to take an active role in military activities. They beleived in the Fuehrer. The Master race, and all conquering Forces to rule the World. To the sound of martial music, flags fluttering, jack boots and Heil Hitler, the exuberance would have been daunting to resist. Yet, Lombardi insists, JR was a reluctant soldier. Considering his pater was a staunch Police Officer, with an undeniable history of anti-Semitism, racial superiority, and pro-nazi, the precept doesn't ring true. Lombardi insists RJ was in the Luffwaffe, and in an antiaircraft battery ?

In the dying days of WWII, the Jugend was sent to bolster the Panzers, and rear guard the depleted infantry, in house-to-house combat. They committed some appalling atrocities against fellow Germans civilians, accusing them of treachery, and setting fire to their homes. They dragged women and children out in the streetys and hanged them from lamp posts, as a reminder the War was not completely lost. Children themselves, they fiendishly tortured, maimed and murdered thousands of their fellowe men and women. None were brought to justice. The Allies maintained their child-like innocence was too much to expect otherwise. The comparison with their own off spring was like chalk and cheese !

The Vatican may try by all it's abundant resources, to whetheyr the storm with denials and procrastinations, nevertheless
cont..
Posted by jacinta, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 5:19:38 PM
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if anything, it will create a schism in the Churches, alienate the flock, and loosen the rigidity it holds over the Diocese. Communicants have lost faith.

It behoves the Vatican to come clean, defrock the wayward priest, take full responsibility for the past, compensate the victims, socialise more with the opposite sex, and importantly NOT accept candidates for the seminary from men in their teens. Abolish the celibacy code. Allow more females into their ranks, and overhaul the curriculum on sexual aberrations.

It's not three strikes and you're out. It will be a new code of conduct, and instant dismissal. Better to save one child from depravity and mature age depression and possible suicide, then to maintain a theatrical facade of saintly hypocrisy and holy wisdom.

Wishful thinking, for sure. Things never change in this neck of the woods !
Posted by jacinta, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 5:31:26 PM
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Jacinta,
How could there be 10,000 victims daily in Boston alone when the John Jay report managed to identify only 10,667 in the USA over an extended time-frame?
Furthermore, your accusations of bestiality are the first I've heard.
Have you any information on the types of animals involved?
Your claim reminds me of Obama's statement that 10,000 people had been killed in a Kansas tornado, whereas the official toll was 12.
But what's a minor rhetorical flourish when you're trying to make a point?
Posted by Proxy, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 5:35:17 PM
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Jacinta, why single out the Pope for crimes against humanity? By your criteria, you should be summoning also the State Education ministers or Julia Gillard for sexual abuse of school children by teachers; the Australian Olympic delegate for sexual abuse of children by swimming coaches; the Northern Territory Chief Minister or Kevin Rudd for sexual abuse of aboriginal children by their seniors; and the United Nations Secretary-General (or should it be Geoffrey Robertson) for sexual abuse of children in UN refugee camps.
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 10:59:10 PM
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Raycom.....because the Roman Catholic Church dares to take the high moral ground and lecture everybody else. Don't forget what Jesus said: Those to whom much is given of them much will be required. I'm a RC, and practising, but I fully believe that our Church needs a severe pruning (Jesus's words).
Posted by Francis, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 11:04:39 PM
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Runner, like yourself i am a committed christian & deeply concerned about the loony, left, alleged academics, Marxist (pro child abuse) dogma as well. Your also correct about the church NGOs doing social work more efficiently, or cheaper, but they still have to "report" to state DOCS, dept of families/community services.

If the news is unpalatable, (or not the kind of thing the minister wants to hear) renewal of next year's contract can be held over them. Its also about "plausible deniability", the minister was unaware, the subcontractor "stuffed up" (we'll just sack them, sacrifice a few scapegoats, etc), see how its all, at arms length now.

There is an evil agenda behind everything the red/green/getup/labour coalition does.

Francis, of course loony, left politicians & bureaucrats never take the high moral ground do they Francis?
Posted by Formersnag, Wednesday, 28 April 2010 5:51:43 PM
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Formation and screening are important along with new accountabilities.
The use of the term 'pedophile priests' is totally wrong of the media who have an agenda to cover up their approval of homosexual lifestyles and sexual acts.
The 4% of priests who have engaged in sexual/abue behaviours is weighted towards boys in their tenns or in their 20s. This is homosexual behaviour and the media does not wish to mention it. They use the pedophile tag as the media are frightened on reporting the truth, not just on this issue but on almost anything social, cultural or economic- against working people and in favour of either left/liberal ideologues or the corporations on the 'right' of politics.
Much higher proportins of 4% in the general male population engage in adultery, overseas sex tours in south-east Asia to sexualy use and abuse males and females of widely differing ages. Where is the indignation from the media or perhaps from YOU dear reader? Where is the outrage about the higher rates of sexual abuse form the denominations and from the other religions? their incident rates are far higher. The media also advertise for phone sex and for brothels and curious forms of sex and collect millions for advertising. Yet to the front of their newsprint they carry on with feigned outrage. Who is being hypocritical and insincere?
Posted by Webby, Wednesday, 28 April 2010 10:38:25 PM
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Webby.....we need to pull the log out of our own eye before pulling the splinter out of the others eye. The fact is that our RC hierarchy has been preaching to others for years whilst ignoring the evils in our own midst. Remember the words of Jesus: Those to whom much is given of them much will be required. I fear there is a lot more to come.
Posted by Francis, Wednesday, 28 April 2010 10:45:34 PM
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Formersnag.....Don't use the "loony, left" to avoid the issues. The fact is we claim to have divine authority to do so. Revisit the words of Jesus that I cited.
Posted by Francis, Wednesday, 28 April 2010 10:48:30 PM
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