The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > To be the Clever Country, we need the appropriate history curriculum > Comments

To be the Clever Country, we need the appropriate history curriculum : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 20/4/2010

If we understand history we can observe the evolution of man’s thinking and avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All
Yes western power and control seeking technocratic man rules--OK.

Lewis Mumford wrote extensively about this topic, especially in The Pentagon of Power, and Technics and Civilization. He also warned us that if the trends and tendencies that were then in motion in 1972, continued, then we would most probably destroy ourselves, or create a totalitarian state.

Of course we now live in a "culture" which combines both the nightmare scenarios described in Brave New World AND 1984.

But all of our technology, and more importantly the way in which we use it is the creation of a particular mind-set. Or rather the way in which our brain and nervous system is patterned by the "culture" in which we live.

Our dominant cultural mind-set is described in this one stark image. This image is featured in The Pentagon of Power

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~spanmod/mural/panel14.html

Plus the first part of this essay describes how the process works---only one human force is dominant on the earth

http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/bridge_to_god/index2.html

And the emotional asana which creates this power syndrome

http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/asana_of_science/index.html

Plus the western idea of HIS-story is very much an extension of this technological mind-set. It is in essence a self-justifying IDEOLOGY--and mostly the HIS-story of "great" European males and their conquests and victories.

As such it also follows the golden rule: namely them that has the gold get to write the HIS-story.

And of course the "official" HIS-Story tells us that Western "culture" in its current form is the most "advanced" form of culture ever seen on this planet---the "end" of HIS-story even (which may be devastatingly true)

Karl Popper wrote about this topic in his book The Poverty of Historicism
Posted by Ho Hum, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:47:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Possibly one of the least likely groups of people to teach history would be teachers. Much of what is being taught in subjects such as maths, science and English is now many hundreds of years old (eg. Archimedes’ principle was developed about 210 BC), and by now, there should have been highly innovative ways developed to teach such knowledge to new students.

Teaching should have a history of continuous improvement. But instead, there would not be any area of education that shows any signs of improvement, with most areas now in continuous decline, and some areas such as maths have now declined below critical levels.

The history lesson taught by teachers to students should be, if you want to improve, don’t do as I do.
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 12:40:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
a look at recent history should show what has made Australia such a sort after place as opposed to broken Britain. Does not take to many brains to work it out.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 2:10:00 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Runner,
I suppose you meant "sought" after place. Anyhow, the reason why Australia is now on top of the list is because those with an agenda have succeeded in Britain & now Australia is the target. Unfortunately, there aren't enough brains to work that out.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 2:15:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
BRIAN HOLDEN the world is going to change in ways old-fashioned lefties like you cannot begin to understand.

Here is my two cents worth

(1) The introduction of the principle of covariance into physics via the special and general theories of relativity. The laws of physics must appear the same for all observers. Even when general relativity is subsumed into a more basic theory, which I think will happen, we shall continue to see the universe through the eyes of Einstein.

(2) Quantum mechanics. Our "second brain" is only made possible by quantum mechanical devices called semiconductors. Eventually quantum mechanics will lead to quantum computing which will...?? Impossible to say but it will transform the human race.

(3) The discovery that evolution occurs faster than we thought and that we humans are still evolving, still a work in progress. I don’t know of any pundits, including – in fact especially - BRIAN HOLDEN - who understand the implications of this.

(4) Widespread availability and use of contraception and the effect that is having on human evolution

(5) The resurgence of fundamentalist religions, especially Islam. The 21st Century may be the century of Islam. (And, no, I don’t think that's a good thing)

(6) The genesis of genetic engineering

(7) The genesis of nano-engineering. Both this and the previous have the ability to transform society in ways nobody CAN imagine. If you think you can, you're wrong.

(8) The development of weapons of mass destruction

(9) The development of robots, especially weaponised robots. We're only at the beginning of this revolution.

(10) The break down of the social contract in every Western country

Any of the above 10 has the potential to transform society. But they will interact in ways none of us can even begin to understand.

Someone born in 2000 could still understand something about life in 1900. I wonder whether someone "born", "manufactured", "designed', whatever in 2100 will even be able to comprehend the year 2000
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 2:32:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
vanna/HRS/Timkins et al: << by now, there should have been highly innovative ways developed to teach such knowledge to new students >>

Instead of perpetually whining about teachers, maybe you could pay attention to those who know what they're talking about. The recent post from tomw in the thread entitled "Aussie educators in demand: the best-kept secret in town" might be a good start.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10275#168586

Why do you hate teachers so much, Timmy? Was your ex-missus one, perchance?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 2:33:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi vanna,

look I don't agree with all you say but I respect your right to your opinion.

I subscribe to the theory that basic truths never change and that the basic truths of the ancient and not so ancient mathematicians, scientists etc still have relevance and are the basis of much of our technological advance.

Where we agree is with the inability of the education system to produce and encourage enough sufficienttly interested teachers to tutor and enthuse our children in the subjects of maths and science.

Wow CJ look at all that difference between vanna and I and there is not one word of denigration. Now there is a lesson for you cj.

As for Mr Holdens list, well he missed the two most significant advances ever. Even though they didn't occur in the 20th century they should never be overlooked.

The industrial revolution and the development of man to communicate without physical contact. ie the development of radio communications.

The ability to transfer thought from one person to another over vast distances. The names Thomas Eddison and particularly his chief engineer Arthur Edwin Kennelly, as the discoverers of the atmospheric layer which enables radio waves to bounce around the world, should be seared into the brain of everyone at birth. Without the discovery of that ability we'd still be in the age of telegraph and snail mail.

The other much more basic truth Mr Holden overlooks is that all the major technological advances occured in free societies with capitalist economies which were largely unencumbered with utter theocratic dominance.

Ahh how everones view of history is determined by their political and/or idealogical beliefs.

See how I'm such a liberal.
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 3:27:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It's sad that there is a very good possibility that over 90% of Australians think that Germany voted for Hitler and later started WW2 because they were sore about not winning WW1, that Robert E Lee was an advocate of Slavery, and have only the faintest idea of how badly we treated indigenous Australians in the past (and present).

It's amazing that over 12 years of education and we hardly actually LEARN anything from school, as much as work for work's sake.

We desperately need a more active history program, with modern history and politics starting MUCH earlier and more actively (drop some English class while we're at it- how some rubbish by Charles Dickens could possibly be more important to cover than the founding of Israel is insane)!

And some more classes in politics and civics would be good.

But another problem is, is the highly controversial nature of many parts of history and the bureaucratic obstacles preventing an accurate in-depth analysis of issues to reach the classroom- the "Tyrant" label for Menzies somehow being controversial is a good example..
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 4:04:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
History is a subjective subject as it is written down by the winners. History is also taught in schools from a society point of view. We can teach our children religious education but we teach them scripture instead. Many would argue this is the same but it is only one point of view, a christian point of view of religion.Our history books show us that Arabian Muslim's are fundamentalist and anti-western, they may wish to point out the invasions like the crusades and betrayal such as the colonisation post WW1 the west has enforced on them over thousands of years and are simply standing up for themselves. History without philosophy, sociology and psychology to help find perspective are simply tools of manipulation and misinformation. We truly are the dumb society so full of our own self importance that we surely will smart ourselves into extinction.
Posted by nairbe, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 5:29:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In reply to both Brian's article and Keith's comment:

You both left out another critical event of historical importance in the last century. The feminist movement, which taught us not only that referring to humankind as "Man" is inaccurate, but that it is also inherently sexist.

Looks like both of you could do with a little brushing up on the basics of 'social history'. Perhaps then we can move on to the technological stuff ;)
Posted by Grayzie, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 5:35:57 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Grayzie,

I wonder whether Marie Curie bothered much about her feminism ... I certainly don't.

Nor do I think the thousands of other active females, like my mother, who contributed to western development bothered much about it either.

If you think women only contributed to western development since the inception of modern feminism sadly ignores the facts and reality.

ok I can substitute humankind for man, that's very simple for me as I accept the equality of the sexes, but can you accept womens involvement in western development prior to modern feminism?
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 7:52:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
C J Morgan

You seem to be a very modest chap for someone with such great wisdom, so I have some questions for you.

What if you were able to develop quantum computing, which gave you almost infinite computing ability?

And what if you had mastered nanotechnology, and could manufacture whatever you liked from simple raw materials?

What would you do with all that?

My guess is that you would want to develop a brand new planet, populated entirely by C J Morgans.
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 8:29:11 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Keith:

Haha, nice try mate :) Where did I even remotely allude to the suggestion of a belief that women played no part in western development prior to modern feminism? I smell straw...

Quite the opposite. They played a fundamental role throughout history, and many notable contributions in Curie's own field. We just didn't start hearing about them until recently. Funny that. But I'm sure the feminists had nothing to do with it. No doubt mankind got there on its own.
Posted by Grayzie, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:15:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think that vanna/HRS/Timkins et al and keith have a lot in common.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 10:41:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
C J Morgan,
It must be a great difficulty in your life, that the only people who love you are feminists.

The facts are, to survive, you must go forward. Some people call this evolution, but its simply going forward.

Current teachers should be the last people to teach history, because almost nothing in the education system is going forwards, and nearly everything is in decline and going backwards.
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 20 April 2010 11:52:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Vanna wrote:

"My guess is that you would want to develop a brand new planet, populated entirely by C J Morgans."

Ouch!

What a lovely put down. :-)
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 12:03:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Steven

"Someone born in 2000 could still understand something about life in 1900. I wonder whether someone "born", "manufactured", "designed', whatever in 2100 will even be able to comprehend the year 2000"

Exactly. I 'reckon' they will have all families lives recorded on some new technological instrument [perhaps inside a pen or paintbrush that flows out electronically] to view in laser type flows. Or maybe, technology will by 2100 be able to laser on through to Heaven for us to speak 'one on one' with our deceased relatives and friends?

Just kidding! No creationary vision there StevenLMeyer.

For what its worth: Over many years have given thought about technology and advances using basic computer software hardware to date, particularly when one takes a look at technological advances jumping quickly within a minimal 1-3 year period.

Further to your comments, Innovation and engineering...I hope one of our Ozzies engineers, patents and exports at least one of the following this century;

(a) a robot shopping, cooking and cleaning [can hear the cheers]
(b) cars flying in space [the Jetsons cartoon program?]
(c) individual spaceships to fly around the world, to the moon and other planets
(d) The VFT and if not, [c-f]in the meantime;
(c) electric vehicles [computerized]driving people [the UK half way there?]programmed with safety features to avoid all types of common accidents
(d) Detection beams/fields placed within the middle of roads to stop vehicles moving across until safe and/or Posts on highways with beams/computers to detect when a vehicle is about to overtake dangerously
(e) A robotic computerized voice booming out 'wake up' with horns sounding in the car, to alert drivers when they have fallen asleep
(e) Underground Parking: Rego plates detected by beams, the plate lights up above the carpark, and the vehicle who was first there claims the parking spot [to avoid cheats zooming in at the last minute] lol. Robotic parking infringements issued if the cheat progresses
(f) Refrigerated boots in vehicles [another one of mine someone can develop]

Fantastic points Steven.
Posted by we are unique, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 1:03:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So why do you hate teachers so much, vanna/HRS/Timkins et al? Who should teach history at schools, if not teachers?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 7:48:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
No matter how much history is taught, or who teaches it, I doubt if it will make us learn from the past. Take Afghanistan - a known disaster area when it comes to foreign interventions, including the Soviet invasion within recent memory. Did that stop the Coalition of the Willing?
Posted by Candide, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 7:56:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CJ Morgan.

“Who should teach history at schools, if not teachers?”

Students could always try "hyperhistory".

http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/History_n2/a.html

What is there to learn from a teacher in Australia?

How to read from an excuse manual.
How to ask for more and more taxpayer funding.
How to spend as much taxpayer funding as possible on imports from other countries.
How to use the Australian public as a scapegoat.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 8:14:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I don't know about anywhere else but in Australia the term teacher is a misnomer, it should really be repeater.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 8:45:23 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Cripes vanna/HRS/Timkins et al, you'd have to do better than that pathetic and superficial effort. If that's the sort of crap that you try and flog to schools, it's unsurprising that they're not buying. You don't know much about history, do you?

I see that one of OLO's other scholars has weighed in to the debate. individual has demonstrated on other threads that he has little knowledge of, nor interest in, history - so I guess his motivation for contributing is his antipathy towards teachers. While vannakins' perpetual bleating about teachers is attributable to his personal relationship failures, what's your problem, individual?

It wouldn't surprise anybody that your personal experience with education is limited, so on what basis do you make your slurs about contemporary teachers?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 8:59:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CJ wins.
Posted by examinator, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:20:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bears don't need Air conditioners, if they did they would have invented them.
The problem with the "Technological" approach to history is that it then becomes totally one sided due to the fact that outside the West there is no ingenuity and invention, the Majority world has been intellectually for hundreds if not thousands of years and is looking like it'll stay that way.
You could argue that due to Western innovation the majority world has stopped innovating after their exposure to our technology, they don't need to invent things, if we haven't bothered to invent it they're not likely to need it anyway.
I may seem to be thinking in counter intuitive way to people who have read my other posts but a balanced curriculum based on the history of human interactions is probably more valuable than one based on "Technology", after a certain point theres nothing to learn about Majority world technological prowess.
If you really THINK about technology, where it comes from and what it means you're not going to be intimidated by Lefty Guilt Trips and "Bash The Dead White Males" rhetoric.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:33:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Correction on typo, line should read "Majority world has been stagnant for hundreds if not thousands of years"
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:35:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
the more away from God we go the dumber we get as a country. Anyone can see that where the Christian God has been revered the country has prospered. cleverness is not going back to worship 'mother nature' or staring at your belly button.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 10:40:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Tremendos Grayzie,

we're both on the same page of history and reading the same lines. You didn't suggest anything ... I assumed ... wrongly ... sorry. I'm human and occassionally err.

I'm not now sexist though once I was, unknowingly.

Australian history totally ignores the reality of womens contribution.
One fellow by the name of MacCarther, a common soldier of fortune, is creited with being the father of the Australian sheep industry.

Elizabeth, his wife, was the daughter of English farmers. And of course NSW eventually led the world with it's Married Womans Property Act. Had that been in force during the 'rum rebellion', then Elizabeth would have likely received the appropriate kudos.

Vanna you are not quite right about CJ. Be nice to him and give him some credit. He needs it more than most.
Posted by keith, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 12:58:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I don't buy that Runner.
The vast Majority of Christians live in the third world in varying degrees of poverty.
There are certain truths that really are self evident and it's OK to give voice to them.
A technological focus on history will even further marginalise the non Caucasian "out groups" in society, it's simply not relevant to them. To the Caucasian students further Western technological innovation really can be taken for granted, it's not something they're going to have to consider unless they choose to move away from White society.
An honest study of the complex historical interactions between the different tribes of the world, presented honestly and without bias and cultural relativism is the way to go, we need to inspire curiosity in our children and a desire to embrace multiple points of view.
Asians are the best Asians.
Africans are the best Africans.
Caucasians are the best Caucasians.
There's no need for relativism or objectivity when discussing your history.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 1:20:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
C J Morgan,
I detect you are someone who believes they have a big brain, and of course you would be very open to suggestions.

So if you don’t like “Hyperhistory”, then you could always try History Channel.

http://www.history.com/

Most of it has been developed in the US, and if you are an Australian teacher, then you can always subscribe to it using funding grabbed from the taxpayer.

The history of Australian education is past history. Any achievements that have occurred, have actually occurred in the past, with nothing but decline in recent decades.

I’m wondering if Australian history teachers will teach this.

Perhaps they could call it “The Rise and Fall of the Australian Education System”.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 1:36:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The History Channel, vanna/HRS/Timkins et al? Clearly, you're an expert in the field of historical pedagogy - I'm amazed that nobody else has thought of that.

Hell, why do we need schools and teachers at all? Surely all that kids need is a TV and Wikipedia. Think of how much money could be saved...

Why do you hate teachers so much?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 3:13:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Keith,

And my apologies also, because the original intent of my post was not to accuse you of being sexist, but merely to show the importance of social history. While some elements of feminism have a propensity to take political correctness too far, the use of "mankind" in lieu of "humankind" is one word in particular that I do believe propagates sexist connotations and needs to be changed as common practice.

There may be some argument for a portion of the History curriculum to be dedicated to the impact of technology, I don't deny that.
Posted by Grayzie, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 6:09:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There were 240,000 participants in the battle of Waterloo, every one of them fought their own little Waterloo, all of them different battles.
When the official histories were written the historians went and interviewed as many survivors as they could find, the research took many years.
Lets' get people talking about the Lebanese history in Australia, the Polynesian, Chinese, German histories and so on as distinct and separate experiences.
There is no Australian History after 1788 because theres no such thing as an Australian after 1788.
There is no History of "Humankind" because there's no such thing as humankind after the primordial Humanoids left Africa, dispersed across the globe to become races, tribes and nations.
The trouble with the Priests of Political Correctness is that they want to create the History and write the History Tomes as well as teach it, make a buck off both ends and the middle.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 7:23:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
C J Morgan,
I’m surprised that you didn’t like the US history websites I so kindly provided for you.

Many textbooks, and almost every piece of software being used in the schools and universities in Australia is now being imported from the US, so why not import their history as well.

I don’t hate anyone, but I can understand why you abuse so many other posters, and why you like feminists and teachers so much.

To a feminist, a male is someone to be used for money, but to be ignored , denigrated or used as a scapegoat at other times.

To a teacher, the public is to be used for money, but to be ignored, denigrated or used as a scapegoat at other times.

Same thing, with some slight differences.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 8:33:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
vanna/HRS/Timkins et al: << To a feminist, a male is someone to be used for money, but to be ignored , denigrated or used as a scapegoat at other times.

To a teacher, the public is to be used for money, but to be ignored, denigrated or used as a scapegoat at other times. >>

I knew that with a bit of encouragement you'd revert to form. That bit of drivel is classic Timkins.

Thanks for that. As ever, you have nothing relevant or useful to contribute to discussions about education. But please don't let that stop you bleating on endlessly about those dreadful teachers and feminists. It's always entertaing, in a Schadenfreude kind of way.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 22 April 2010 8:26:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
C J Morgan

I don't think you have ever made a single post to any forum without abusing some other poster. No wonder you like teachers and feminists so much.
Posted by vanna, Thursday, 22 April 2010 8:54:01 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
vanna

that is the history of cj morgan in a nutshell.
Posted by keith, Thursday, 22 April 2010 1:23:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Now now children. Play nice, and I'll let you out to recess.

My apologies for interjecting in your undoubtedly groundbreaking critiques/hissy fits, but there's a few points I'd like to make.

Seeing as those of you lining up to lambast the school system appear to lack the awareness of how to distinguish one's gluteus maximus from one's anconeus, I thought I'd come a runnin' with a pompous attitude and a few brutally direct truths that you all appear rather ignorant of.

Point 1: For all it's faults, name the educational systems superior to the Australian one? If it's indeed falling apart at the seams, I'd like to hear which system we should be emulating.
The Chinese rote-learning system perhaps? Repeat and write? Don't question orthodoxy? P'raps you'd prefer the ignorant preachings of a schools sanctioned by the Iranian clerics, or the anti-evolutionist yahoos infesting the southern states of the US.
Maybe we could offer advertising in schools, like they do in the US? How about a cola-emblazoned sports field? Or contracts to only sell pepsi drinks in school grounds?

Christ. Get a grip.

Continued:
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:27:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Point 2: All this comparing whatnot, judging the merits of this'n'that and assessing the value of whatsit is all well and good, but recent moves back to teaching core precepts is all well and good. Holden's article seems to encourage history to teach pretty much damn well everything. Regrettably, we need to make time for things such as maths and chemistry. We don't have a hundred hours a day to consider the ins and outs of everything.
Some critical thinking is important, but the notion that people are taught to simply accept mainstream orthodoxies is rubbish.
Take a look at the yahoos on this site for example. No hesitation to challenge orthodoxies there.

Skills in relation to critical thought however...

Point 3: With all due respect Vanna, (though I'm having a difficult time determining what respect, if any, is actually due) I s'spect there's a bit more to teaching than you let on.
If it were merely about reading books then I'd expect our literacy rates to be a bit higher. Again. Name the better system. There's a constructive discussion, rather than empty whingeing.

Point 4: The staunchest critics appear to be the ones most out of touch with modern society, and appear to hate it so much they wouldn't be caught dead actually interacting with it without a nasty grimace on their face.
At least, that's the image you appear to give off, between the lines of your text. Might wanna work on your friendlying up your image a tad.

To summarize: Talk is cheap. It's even cheaper without constructive suggestions. I don't think our system is all that bad, but that might be because I know something about other educational systems throughout the world, and I don't assume the worst of the up-and-coming generations, as has been the fashion for bitter old men, (usually pining for their non-existent glory days of youth) for the last few thousand years.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:28:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Turnrightthenleft

Your not much better than the name calling CJ Morgan.

The article is on history.

What history do you want to teach (if there is time left over from teaching maths, science and English)?
Posted by vanna, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:59:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy