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The Forum > Article Comments > The weekend of the non-believers > Comments

The weekend of the non-believers : Comments

By Ian Robinson, published 16/3/2010

In Melbourne the non-believers came and mingled, enjoying their escalating legitimacy in the community.

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From all that I have read of the convention, it does seem that congratulations are in order, to the organizers and to the presenters.

My concerns that it would turn into a self-congratulatory clone of a religious festival were clearly misplaced.

It has certainly given us more than a few fine examples of the way in which atheists should treat the religious, their odd beliefs and their insistence on special treatment.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 9:28:33 AM
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So what's new? Throughout history men and woman who fail in their marriages, embrace immorality then set up their own standard of self righteousness. Quite pathetic really but predictable. Really funny to see them putting their faith in such fallen High Priests.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 9:43:19 AM
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Runner

¿Qué?
Posted by Severin, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 9:46:56 AM
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Well I thoroughly enjoyed the conference. There was a refreshing absence of humbug.

I did not want to appear under a false flag so I made a point of wearing a discreet cross over my dress. Some attendees questioned me closely about my beliefs but, interestingly, none tried to "convert" me.

Much of the conference was devoted to airing the evils of "big religion". Unsurprisingly "big religion" is no more moral than "big banks". In fact it is arguable that the banking industry is actually less corrupted than the religion industry.

I don't know if Jesus attended World Youth Day. If he did I have no doubt he went about muttering:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean". (Mt 23.27
Posted by KinkyChristian, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 10:18:28 AM
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So what's new? Atheism is new

Throughout history men and woman who fail in their marriages,
All the men I met there were happily married.

embrace immorality. Have you read the bible lately? morality Your kidding.

then set up their own standard of self righteousness. Those set by standards of common sense and decency NOT those immoral standards paraded from the bible

Quite pathetic really but predictable. Nothing is more predictable than a Christian bigot

Really funny to see them putting their faith in such fallen High Priests. Better our "High Priests" than Joseph Alois Ratzinger, George Pell, the Mad Monk and "God Almighty" Kevin
Posted by ponde, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 10:35:58 AM
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I congratulate the organisers for getting this conference together, and wish I could have been there.

However, it did attract some pretty bad press, alleging that some participants (Dawkins included) made insulting comments about religious people. If the media reports were true, those comments were unnecessary, and atheists at large could have done without the outrage they inevitably generated.

See, for example, this report in Monday's SMH: http://www.smh.com.au/national/dawkins-derides-sainthood-as-pythonesque-20100314-q676.html

and the understandably indignant letters to the editor on Tuesday: http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/reasoned-arguments-needed-not-insults-20100315-q9i3.html

Steve Fielding doesn't present as the sharpest pencil in the box - he says he has a "specific learning difficulty", whatever that is. I do have some reservations about a man who has problems understanding complex arguments holding the balance of power in the upper house of our nation's parliament (in the same way that I would be hesitant to employ a blind man as a bus driver - it's just not the job for him with such a disability), but perhaps calling him "more stupid than an earthworm" is going too far, and the alleged "Pope Nazi" comment is right out of order.

If people want to believe in irrational things, we should let them get on with it, as long as they don't interfere in our lives. Name-calling only attracts bile aimed at atheists in return.
Posted by Slobodon Meshirtfront, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 11:18:31 AM
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Ponde,

Please don't encourage runner by responding to him. He has never bothered with reason, and attempting rational discourse with him is an exercise in futility.

Runner is a poster boy for blind fanaticism, and if I were a christian I would be embarassed by him as his vitriol does more damage to christianity than athiesm.

Twenty years ago, one did not mention one was an athiest as it was frowned on. Today it is a point of pride, runner is a reminder why.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 11:27:06 AM
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Shadow Minister for sense and sensibility
Being "new" to this forum I was not aware of Runners blind fanaticism.
Letting him make blind fanatical comments that go unanswered goes against my grain. Other people might read it and say that "the atheists" have no answer to that comment should not be allowed.
So whenever blind fanaticism raises its head I will be there to knock it on the head.
Posted by ponde, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 11:45:43 AM
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I wonder sometimes what percentage of people who criticise atheists and their non belief in superstition, have actually read Dawkins or Hitchens from cover to cover. They make such a case for logic in these volumes that is impossible to fault. But then of course theists are blind to logic and science and it is impossible to argue with faith per se because it is not based on these tenets.
Posted by snake, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 11:53:25 AM
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Ian, I attended the conference and it was a wonderful experience. We had such a great line up of speakers. I really liked your talk and style, thanks for the dry wit. For these reasons it may be easy to feel over confident about our views and the extend of their reach in the broader community.

However as I left the conference I had a quick reality check. I was killing time before catching my plane back to Sydney and went for a stroll on the South Bank esplanade when I was confronted by a Muslim woman wearing a niqab, pushing her baby girl in a pram with her husband looking on.

I thought to myself, how is this baby going to grow with such parents. What kind of role models are they for her? Will she get a proper secular education that will teach her how to think clearly and critically?

I hope we have another one soon where this time we can put on the agenda how immigration is fueling growing demands for religious expressions by ethnic minorities and how they conflict with our secular values and goals, particularly in public schools, and what to do about it.

This is a very delicate topic that needs to be discussed rationally and openly. We know the christian well and they know us well. We've been arguing with each other for a long time. I don't think that we have developed the language and arguments in regard to Muslims. We need to do that because I think the fear of the growing influence of Islam in Australia was never far from the surface at the conference.

We don't want to have a cultural and political agenda based on fear. We have a good story to tell and we've got to reach everyone.
Posted by Bruno 57, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 12:02:59 PM
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Greetings Mr. Snake,
I agree with you whole heartedly, they are too busy reading the bible from their posterior to read anything intelligent.
I hope that the reverse is not true - Atheist should read the bible, you cannot argue against a book you have not read. (Read it twice.)
Similar arguments exist for the Evolution / Creation debate.
I once met a man that claimed to an expert in Evolution and was widely read on the subject. I ask him what he thought of the origin of the species "I have not read that yet" was his reply.
Posted by ponde, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 12:10:46 PM
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Slobodon Meshirtfront:

"...but perhaps calling him [Steve Fielding] "more stupid than an earthworm" is going too far,..."

I agree. Earthworms are not stupid and Dawkins of all people should know better.An earthworm has a brain that is excellently adapted - to being an earthworm.

The real problem is that Fielding lacks a brain that is adapted to being a legislator.

On behalf of those tireless little beasties, the earthworms of the world, I protest this slur.

Shadow Minister,

Are you sure runner is a Christian?
Posted by KinkyChristian, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 12:16:54 PM
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I really can't stop myself laughing with these god deniers and haters who have to hold their religous meetings with disciples like Catherine Deveny. Her doctrine is worthy of the irrational garbage these people spit out, It is actually an honour to receive labels from such disciples as Shadow Minister who I am sure is the model of morality and intellect at least in his own eyes.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 1:24:03 PM
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Hello Mr. Runner,
You seem to lack the basic understanding of atheism. It is totally impossible to hate the nonexistent, deny who, what?
We have meeting and a good laugh every couple of years, not like others that waste their time EVERY Sunday morning singing and praying to the nonexistent.
I would prefer to listen to Catherine Deveny rather that George Pell any day.
Her doctrine is to make fun of the ignorant if that offends you, learn.
I would trust Shadow Minister over any Christian any day in a matter of morality because we get our moralty from common sense not a ethnic cleanser.
Posted by ponde, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 1:55:03 PM
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Runner,unlike the religous get togethers, no taxpayer money was involved in the Atheist convention. Surely that must please you!!
Posted by Kipp, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 2:05:43 PM
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Ponde you write
'ou seem to lack the basic understanding of atheism. It is totally impossible to hate the nonexistent, deny who, what?'

Isn't it amazing how much hatred, bile and misrepresenting their is of atheist towards someone they say does not exist.

I am glad that the true nature of these high priests and priestess are on display for everyone to see there bile. They are the most intolerant group in Australia. I would say they even surpass the militant muslims. They certainly kill a lot more people and especially unborn babies. I realise this fits with your 'commonsense' morality.

KIPP

Don't make me laugh. Taxpayers fork out everyday to propagate leftist dogma in universities and schools. Look at how much has been fed to Green groups promoting your earth worshipping religion.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 3:40:34 PM
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The below article by Melanie Phillips on the non-believers weekend is submitted for your enlightenment:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/dawkins-preaches-to-the-deluded-against-the-divine/story-e6frg6zo-1225841086925
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 4:04:01 PM
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I was unable to attend the conference owing to a prior commitment to the convention for DDDWWFEIWFGFC, Drug Dealers Dealing With Withdrawal From Economic Investment Withdrawal From the Global Financial Crisis, convened by the Church of Scientoligisms. I tried to cancel but the tickets were $220,000 each, and my inclusion had been made possible via a back door donation.
[they’re so relentlessly persistent. Hi Martha!]

I was interested in attending the conference for I was hoping to compare evidence of the recorded history of my cultural experience as an ethnic migrant, and a colonised indigenous person.

For my culture has much we still wish to reciprocate to our colonial settlers. But for them we would have remained pagans, however, with the fervour of their faith and evangelism, we were rapidly transcended into heathens.

Doesn’t adversity make strange bedfellows? [Hi Martha!]
Posted by Ngarmada, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 4:56:32 PM
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runner, i suppose i have all this bile because i'm a godless atheist. what's your excuse?
Posted by bushbasher, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 5:25:40 PM
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Some contributors cannot tell what forces actually drive people to do cruel things. Nazism gained power and influence over the German people due mainly to the obscene conditions imposed on the German people by the victors in WW1.
If anyone wishes to find a precise comment on the reasons for the French Revolution they should read the closing paragraphs of A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens summed the situation accurately.
I know quite a few non-theists and I find their ethics quite superior to anyone who is willing to indoctrinate children. Teaching children to think clearly will improve their IQ by 6-7% and significantly improve their behaviour. About all churches do is undermine a child's self confidence by teaching them, when they are too young to understand and resist, that they are sinners.
Posted by Foyle, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 8:41:39 PM
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Runner <" They are the most intolerant group in Australia. I would say they even surpass the militant muslims. They certainly kill a lot more people and especially unborn babies."

What? Yet again Runner, you manage to drag abortion into any subject brought up on these forums!

Are you suggesting here that most women who have abortions are atheists? Where is your proof on that? Any statistics?

No? What about the gem that atheists 'kill a lot more people'? Really?

Atheists don't believe in Gods, miracles or other such fantasies- they sound quite sane to me.
Posted by suzeonline, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 10:27:07 PM
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Slobodon Meshirtfront,
To put the Dawkins remark about Fielding in context, it was in relation to a remark made by Fielding when they both appeared on the Q and A panel last week.

Fielding admitted that he believed the Earth was only 10,000 years old and Dawkins was somewhat aghast that somebody who held such views could be qualified to be a Senator in a Government.

Although the "earthworm" comparison was a bit extreme, so is the notion that somebody who is making significant decisions for the whole country could display such a potential flaw in logic.

Would we feel comfortable if somebody who may hold the balance of legislative power was working on behalf of Xenu and the Galactic Federation or was prone to speaking in tongues or hearing voices?
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 11:41:23 PM
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I wish I were in the conference.

Nice to know the names of the celebrities who were non-believers. Among them Taslima Nasreen is closer home as she had stayed in our city -- Kolkata for a few years before she was hounded out by the Communist (?) state government and secular (?) central government of India on the fear of losing Muslim votes.

My complaint against Taslima is that she under pressure had withdrawn some pages unmasking Mohammed, founder of Islam, from one of her books.

My request to nonbelievers is to unite to form a political force since Religion is nothing but a powerful branch of the ruling class to control the masses.
Posted by GODHATE, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 12:00:12 AM
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Dawkins is being hypocritical . Darwin's hypothesis of evolution has never been proved scientifically. Like the anthropogenic global warming believers, the Darwin evolution believers have been conned by mere assertion.
Posted by Raycom, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:54:16 AM
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I think MONTY PYTHON says it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG66moSHTjk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvMEe_GHOXs&feature=related

I mean I assume these two clips are from Monty Python??
Posted by KinkyChristian, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 1:18:57 PM
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"Dawkins is being hypocritical . Darwin's hypothesis of evolution has never been proved scientifically. Like the anthropogenic global warming believers, the Darwin evolution believers have been conned by mere assertion."

You're kidding right? Check out Dr Richard Lenski's E. Coli experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/

Evolution is proven supported by all major scientific fields it touches. As a body of work it may not yet be complete, however to say it hasn't been proved is a lie.
Posted by Cynicide, Friday, 19 March 2010 3:51:40 PM
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Cynicide, Do you also claim there is irrefutable scientific evidence for anthropogenic global warming?
Posted by Raycom, Saturday, 20 March 2010 10:22:11 PM
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Religion is a social construct. It is man made, and the giant world wide structures that religion has created rest on the foundation that: "It is so because I believe it to be so".

Not the sort of foundation I would even build a bicycle shed on!

This is a life that we can believe in, where we can make a difference that benefits our people and our future in the context of the triple bottom line: social, economic and environmental.

Morality is like 'best practice' it is for ever changing. As an atheist I believe in ethics as a guide to a rewarding life.

John H
Posted by John H, Monday, 22 March 2010 3:18:21 PM
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John H, you show your ignorance by suggesting that the Judeo-Christian religion played no part in the development of the ethics that we have today.
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 1:23:38 PM
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au contraire Raycom, the overwhelming similarities between the moral codes of the major religions provide overwhelming evidence of their having derived from a common secular ethics that far-predated any of today's major religions
Posted by stickman, Sunday, 11 April 2010 7:31:44 AM
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Mao was an atheist.
Stalin was an atheist.
Pol Pot was an atheist.
Give me an agnostic any day.
Posted by Proxy, Sunday, 11 April 2010 10:45:21 AM
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Stickman, assertion is not "overwhelming evidence".
Posted by Raycom, Monday, 12 April 2010 11:02:47 AM
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